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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
Andreas Schildbach <andreas@schildbach.de>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Payment Protocol for Face-to-face Payments
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--047d7b2e4d5830beaf04f50dfa6e
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With Java, in theory, you can use SSLSocketFactory.createSocket(btsocket,
address, 1234, true) to wrap a bluetooth socket in SSL. However I have not
tried it.
For now, just prototype and build your product without the security. We can
find someone to experiment with this, if you don't want to .
Bluetooth needs encryption and MACs as well as signing to be secure,
because there could be radio MITM. Yes, this overlaps somewhat with the PKI
signing in BIP70, but not entirely - you might want to serve unsigned
payment requests, but still have confidentiality and authenticity for a
local face to face transaction. The signing and encryption does different
things.
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Alex Kotenko <alexykot@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmm, is there any other way to do it? Can we provide a signed payment
> request and verify the sign on receiving side and this way protect from
> bluetooth MitM attack? Quick googling showed that SSL over bluetooth isn't
> a very well developed area, and my own skills are not enough to quickly
> implement a reliable secure solution here.
>
>
> 2014-03-20 10:36 GMT+00:00 Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>:
>
>> Encoding entire payment requests into qrcodes is definitely not the way
>> to go. They can already be large when signed and we're just at the start of
>> adding features.
>>
>> Finishing off and standardising the bluetooth support is the way to go
>> (r=bt:mac). Andreas' app already has some support for this I believe, so
>> Alex you could prototype with that, but we need to:
>>
>> 1) Add an encryption/auth layer on top, because it runs over RFCOMM
>> sockets. The authentication would require proof of owning the Bitcoin key
>> that's in the address part of the URI (which is needed for backwards compat
>> anyway).
>>
>> 2) Write a BIP for it and make sure it's interoperable
>>
>> For the auth layer we could either use SSL and then just ignore the
>> server certificate and require signing of the session public key with the
>> Bitcoin key, which should be easy to code up but is rather heavy on the
>> air, or roll a custom lightweight thing where we just do a basic ECDH, with
>> the servers key being the same as the address key. But rolling such
>> protocols is subtle and I guess it'd need to be reviewed by people familiar
>> with such things.
>>
>> This feels like a good opportunity to grow the community - perhaps we can
>> find a volunteer in the forums who enjoys crypto.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>>
>
--047d7b2e4d5830beaf04f50dfa6e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">With Java, in theory, you can use SSLSocketFactory.createS=
ocket(btsocket, address, 1234, true) to wrap a bluetooth socket in SSL. How=
ever I have not tried it.<div><br></div><div>For now, just prototype and bu=
ild your product without the security. We can find someone to experiment wi=
th this, if you don't want to .</div>
<div><br></div><div>Bluetooth needs encryption and MACs as well as signing =
to be secure, because there could be radio MITM. Yes, this overlaps somewha=
t with the PKI signing in BIP70, but not entirely - you might want to serve=
unsigned payment requests, but still have confidentiality and authenticity=
for a local face to face transaction. The signing and encryption does diff=
erent things.</div>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu,=
Mar 20, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Alex Kotenko <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mai=
lto:alexykot@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">alexykot@gmail.com</a>></span>=
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace;color:#003300">Hmm, is there a=
ny other way to do it? Can we provide a signed payment request and verify t=
he sign on receiving side and this way protect from bluetooth MitM attack? =
Quick googling showed that SSL over bluetooth isn't a very well develop=
ed area, and my own skills are not enough to quickly implement a reliable s=
ecure solution here.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-03-20 10:36 GMT+0=
0:00 Mike Hearn <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
class=3D"gmail_extra">Encoding entire payment requests into qrcodes is def=
initely not the way to go. They can already be large when signed and we'=
;re just at the start of adding features.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Finishing off and standardising the bl=
uetooth support is the way to go (r=3Dbt:mac). Andreas' app already has=
some support for this I believe, so Alex you could prototype with that, bu=
t we need to:</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">1) Add an e=
ncryption/auth layer on top, because it runs over RFCOMM sockets. The authe=
ntication would require proof of owning the Bitcoin key that's in the a=
ddress part of the URI (which is needed for backwards compat anyway).</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">2) Write a =
BIP for it and make sure it's interoperable</div><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">For the auth layer we could eithe=
r use SSL and then just ignore the server certificate and require signing o=
f the session public key with the Bitcoin key, which should be easy to code=
up but is rather heavy on the air, or roll a custom lightweight thing wher=
e we just do a basic ECDH, with the servers key being the same as the addre=
ss key. But rolling such protocols is subtle and I guess it'd need to b=
e reviewed by people familiar with such things.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">This feels =
like a good opportunity to grow the community - perhaps we can find a volun=
teer in the forums who enjoys crypto.</div></div>
<br></div></div><div class=3D"">-------------------------------------------=
-----------------------------------<br>
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book<br>
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases =
and their<br>
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,<br>
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf=
.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech</a><br>_____________________________________________=
__<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
--047d7b2e4d5830beaf04f50dfa6e--
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