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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Habov=C5=A1tiak?= <martin.habovstiak@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2025 16:32:08 -0300
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Message-ID: <CALkkCJbeAYA2X8jv8iWthKBB8GqxA49DCFm+UMnhmXYpexTNtw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [Proposal] 64-bit arithmetic in Script
To: Chris Stewart <stewart.chris1234@gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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Hi,

the proposal seems to be quite confused about how it's going to do that. It
mentions upgrading existing opcodes, which is a hardfork, not soft fork, at
least without using a different leaf version. But it also mentions
OP_SUCCESSX which are different opcodes. I think it needs some analysis.
(leaf version seems better intuitively)

I'd also love to see analysis why stop at 64 bits and not go all the way to
256 which could be useful for cryptography.

Anyway, pushing amounts on the stack would be great. Though I'm surprised
you're only proposing the sum, not individual outputs. Why?

Good luck!

Martin

D=C5=88a po 12. 5. 2025, 14:21 Chris Stewart <stewart.chris1234@gmail.com>
nap=C3=ADsal(a):

> This soft fork proposal extends the range of numeric operands in Script
> from -2^31+1 to 2^31-1, to -2^63+1 to 2^63-1. It further expands the
> result range for arithmetic operations from -2^63 to 2^63-1, to -2^127 to
> 2^127- 1.
>
> All existing opcodes[1
> <https://github.com/Christewart/bips/blob/2025-03-17-64bit-pt2/bip-XXXX.m=
ediawiki#cite_note-1>
> ] that interpret stack elements as numbers are upgraded to support 64-bit
> parameters.
>
> The existing number encoding format[2
> <https://github.com/Christewart/bips/blob/2025-03-17-64bit-pt2/bip-XXXX.m=
ediawiki#cite_note-2>
> ] and arithmetic semantics[3
> <https://github.com/Christewart/bips/blob/2025-03-17-64bit-pt2/bip-XXXX.m=
ediawiki#cite_note-3>
> ] from the original Bitcoin implementation are preserved, while enhancing
> the supported precision.
>
>
> https://github.com/Christewart/bips/blob/2025-03-17-64bit-pt2/bip-XXXX.me=
diawiki
>
> The purpose for this BIP is to lay the groundwork for introducing amounts
> into Script. This document takes no opinion on how this is done.
>
> I've prototyped a few different proposals now introducing amount locks
> into Script[0][1] and feel like this proposal is stable enough for seriou=
s
> review.
>
> -Chris
>
> [0] - https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/op-inout-amount/549/4?u=3Dchris_stewar=
t_5
>
> [1] - https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/op-inout-amount/549/5?u=3Dchris_stewar=
t_5
>
>
>
> --
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> .
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Hi,<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">the prop=
osal seems to be quite confused about how it&#39;s going to do that. It men=
tions upgrading existing opcodes, which is a hardfork, not soft fork, at le=
ast without using a different leaf version. But it also mentions OP_SUCCESS=
X which are different opcodes. I think it needs some analysis. (leaf versio=
n seems better intuitively)</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"au=
to">I&#39;d also love to see analysis why stop at 64 bits and not go all th=
e way to 256 which could be useful for cryptography.</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Anyway, pushing amounts on the stack would be =
great. Though I&#39;m surprised you&#39;re only proposing the sum, not indi=
vidual outputs. Why?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Goo=
d luck!</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Martin</div></di=
v><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_attr">D=C5=88a po 12. 5. 2025, 14:21 Chris Stewart &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:stewart.chris1234@gmail.com">stewart.chris1234@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
 nap=C3=ADsal(a):<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<p dir=3D"auto">This soft fork proposal extends the range of numeric operan=
ds in Script from -2^<sup>31</sup>+1 to 2^<sup>31</sup>-1, to -2^<sup>63</s=
up>+1 to 2^<sup>63</sup>-1.
It further expands the result range for arithmetic operations from -2^<sup>=
63</sup> to 2^<sup>63</sup>-1, to -2^<sup>127</sup> to 2^<sup>127</sup>- 1.
</p>
<p dir=3D"auto">All existing opcodes<sup id=3D"m_1405182730796312002gmail-u=
ser-content-cite_ref-1-0">[<a href=3D"https://github.com/Christewart/bips/b=
lob/2025-03-17-64bit-pt2/bip-XXXX.mediawiki#cite_note-1" target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noreferrer">1</a>]</sup>=20
that interpret stack elements as numbers are upgraded to support 64-bit par=
ameters.
</p>
<p dir=3D"auto">The existing number encoding format<sup id=3D"m_14051827307=
96312002gmail-user-content-cite_ref-2-0">[<a href=3D"https://github.com/Chr=
istewart/bips/blob/2025-03-17-64bit-pt2/bip-XXXX.mediawiki#cite_note-2" tar=
get=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">2</a>]</sup>=20
and arithmetic semantics<sup id=3D"m_1405182730796312002gmail-user-content-=
cite_ref-3-0">[<a href=3D"https://github.com/Christewart/bips/blob/2025-03-=
17-64bit-pt2/bip-XXXX.mediawiki#cite_note-3" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noref=
errer">3</a>]</sup>=20
from the original Bitcoin implementation are preserved, while enhancing the=
 supported precision.</p><p dir=3D"auto"><a href=3D"https://github.com/Chri=
stewart/bips/blob/2025-03-17-64bit-pt2/bip-XXXX.mediawiki" target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://github.com/Christewart/bips/blob/2025-03-17-64=
bit-pt2/bip-XXXX.mediawiki</a></p><p>The purpose for this BIP is to lay the=
 groundwork for introducing amounts into Script. This document takes no opi=
nion on how this is done.</p><p>I&#39;ve prototyped a few different proposa=
ls now introducing amount locks into Script[0][1] and feel like this propos=
al is stable enough for serious review.</p><p>-Chris</p><p>[0] - <a href=3D=
"https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/op-inout-amount/549/4?u=3Dchris_stewart_5" ta=
rget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/op-inout-am=
ount/549/4?u=3Dchris_stewart_5</a></p><p>[1] - <a href=3D"https://delvingbi=
tcoin.org/t/op-inout-amount/549/5?u=3Dchris_stewart_5" target=3D"_blank" re=
l=3D"noreferrer">https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/op-inout-amount/549/5?u=3Dchr=
is_stewart_5</a></p><p><br></p><br></div>

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