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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Habov=C5=A1tiak?= <martin.habovstiak@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 12:31:29 +0100
Message-ID: <CALkkCJas_pf7Un45CJyFg8j9cBk8PtKN4iYAL81TtLSRNnKqeg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com>
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Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
 lightning-dev <lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
 =?UTF-8?Q?H=C3=A9ctor_Jos=C3=A9_C=C3=A1rdenas_Pacheco?= <hcarpach@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] Sending OP_RETURN via Bitcoin
	Lightning
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I recommend you researching RGB: https://rgb-org.github.io/

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 11:21 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm not a bitcoin developer.
>
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 5:05 AM H=C3=A9ctor Jos=C3=A9 C=C3=A1rdenas Pacheco =
via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I=E2=80=99ve been thinking about how OP_RETURN is being used to create a=
nd trade
>> NFTs on Bitcoin (think RarePepes, SoG and other new ones) and was wonder=
ing
>> if it=E2=80=99s possible to
>>
>
> Do you have a link to any of these protocols?
>
> make transactions with this opcode via Lightning.
>>
>> More specific questions could be:
>>
>>    1. Can opcodes like OP_RETURN be inside a channel=E2=80=99s opening o=
r
>>    closing transaction?
>>    2. If so, could that OP_RETURN change hands within that channel or
>>    network of channels?
>>
>> OP_RETURNs do not have ownership according to the bitcoin network.  It i=
s
> not hard to define a protocol that associates an OP_RETURN with ownership=
,
> and ownership could then be transferred via lightning by sending associat=
ed
> currency via lightning.  Robustness improvements seem possible.
>
>
>>    1. If possible, could the OP_RETURN be divisible? Could one person
>>    send a piece of a OP_RETURN just like one can do right now on the pri=
mary
>>    ledger or would it need to maintain the OP_RETURN code intact?
>>
>> OP_RETURNs themselves do not have ownership, but you can define a
> protocol that gives them divisible ownership, including via lightning.
>
> I=E2=80=99m assuming that, if possible, this would need a protocol layer =
parallel
>> to Bitcoin/Lightning that stores and reads all Bitcoin transactions and =
the
>> ones which involve the node's channels as well as the ones with the
>> OP_RETURN, just like CounterParty does right now with the primary ledger=
.
>>
>> Thank in advance.
>> =E2=80=94=E2=80=94
>>
>> *H=C3=A9ctor C=C3=A1rdenas*@hcarpach
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Lightning-dev mailing list
> Lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">I recommend you researching RGB:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://=
rgb-org.github.io/">https://rgb-org.github.io/</a></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 11:2=
1 Karl &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gmkarl@gmail.com">gmkarl@gmail.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Hi,</div=
><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m not a bitcoin develo=
per.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote" dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 5:05 AM H=C3=A9ctor Jos=C3=A9 C=C3=A1r=
denas Pacheco via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linux=
foundation.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">bitcoin-dev@lists.linu=
xfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div=
 style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir=3D"au=
to" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir=3D=
"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir=
=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Hello=
 all,<div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99ve been thinking about how OP_RETURN is =
being used to create and trade NFTs on Bitcoin (think RarePepes, SoG and ot=
her new ones) and was wondering if it=E2=80=99s possible to</div></div></di=
v></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Do you have a link to any of these protocols?</div><div dir=3D"au=
to"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-sp=
ace"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white=
-space"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-wh=
ite-space"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after=
-white-space"><div> make transactions with this opcode via Lightning.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>More specific questions could be:</div><div><ol><li>Can=
 opcodes like OP_RETURN be inside a channel=E2=80=99s opening or closing tr=
ansaction?</li><li>If so, could that OP_RETURN change hands within that cha=
nnel or network of channels?</li></ol></div></div></div></div></div></block=
quote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto">OP_RETURNs do not have ownership accord=
ing to the bitcoin network.=C2=A0 It is not hard to define a protocol that =
associates an OP_RETURN with ownership, and ownership could then be transfe=
rred via lightning by sending associated currency via lightning.=C2=A0 Robu=
stness improvements seem possible.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div s=
tyle=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir=3D"auto=
" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir=3D"a=
uto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir=
=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div>=
<ol><li>If possible, could the OP_RETURN be divisible? Could one person sen=
d a piece of a OP_RETURN just like one can do right now on the primary ledg=
er or would it need to maintain the OP_RETURN code intact?</li></ol></div><=
/div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto">OP_RETURN=
s themselves do not have ownership, but you can define a protocol that give=
s them divisible ownership, including via lightning.</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-spa=
ce"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-=
space"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-whi=
te-space"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-=
white-space"><div>I=E2=80=99m assuming that, if possible, this would need a=
 protocol layer parallel to Bitcoin/Lightning that stores and reads all Bit=
coin transactions and the ones which involve the node&#39;s channels as wel=
l as the ones with the OP_RETURN, just like CounterParty does right now wit=
h the primary ledger.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank in advance.</div></div=
><div>
<div>=E2=80=94=E2=80=94<br><b>H=C3=A9ctor C=C3=A1rdenas<br></b>@hcarpach</d=
iv>
</div>

<br></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.li=
nuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lightning-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noreferrer">Lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev=
" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfounda=
tion.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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