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From: Moral Agent <ethan.scruples@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 13:20:34 -0500
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	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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>Bitcoin (BTC), Millibitcoin (mBTC) and Microbitcoin (=C2=B5BTC) is the >co=
rrect<
approach. It's tidy, systematic and precise.

The SI system is great, but it's nice if you pick a base unit that is easy
for intuition to comprehend.

It is a fact that I weigh approximately .000,000,000,000,000,000,000,014
Earth masses. If we arrived at rough consensus that this was a cumbersome
way to express the mass of a human, we might then find a group of people
making the superficially sensible proposal that we use SI prefixes and say
I weigh 14 yoctoearths. This would be tidy, systematic and precise, but
that might not be enough to make it the best option. It might be even
better to choose a base unit that human intuition can make sense of, and
THEN add prefixes as needed.

I dislike the name "bits" but I think 100 satoshis does make a nice base
unit. If we cannot crowdsource a more inspiring label we may be stuck with
bits just due to linguistic network effects.

-Ethan



On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 1:27 AM, Marcel Jamin via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> I think one could make the argument that the only people who talk
> about and understand 24 bit audio or 256 bit cryptography are the ones
> who can tell the difference very easily.
>
> To me, your example seems to try hard to make the case for a problem
> that won't exist in reality.
>
> Bitcoin (BTC), Millibitcoin (mBTC) and Microbitcoin (=C2=B5BTC) is the
> >correct< approach. It's tidy, systematic and precise. But that won't
> stop people from using something that's easier to deal with as I just
> had to google the =C2=B5 character again.
>
> Let's also keep in mind that Coinbase has been using "bits" as the
> default for over 2 years now:
> https://blog.coinbase.com/bits-is-the-new-default-and-
> all-new-users-get-100-bits-for-free-9165f757594b
>
> Just from a linguistic standpoint, chances are we'll end up with bits
> anyway. Why fight it? We don't have a SI prefix educational mandate.
>
> Marcel
>
> On 14 December 2017 at 23:01, Natanael <natanael.l@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Reposting /u/BashCo's post on reddit here, for visibility:
> >
> > ---8<---------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >> Before anyone says 'bits' are too confusing because it's a computer
> >> science term, here's a list of homonyms
> >> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_true_homonyms] that you use
> every
> >> day. Homonyms are fine because our brains are able to interpret langua=
ge
> >> based on context, so it's a non-argument.
> >
> >
> > This ignores the fact that there exists multiple meanings of bits *with=
in
> > the same context*, and that beginners likely can't tell them apart.
> >
> > Feel free to try it yourself - talk about Bitcoin "bits" of a particula=
r
> > value with somebody who  doesn't understand Bitcoin. Then explain that
> the
> > cryptography uses 256 bit keys. I would be surprised if you could find
> > somebody who would not be confused by that.
> >
> > Let's say a website says a song is 24 bits. Was that 24 bit audio
> resolution
> > or 24 bit price? Somebody writes about 256 bit keys, are that their siz=
e
> or
> > value?
> >
> > You guys here can probably tell the difference. Can everybody...? Bits
> will
> > cause confusion, because plenty of people will not be able to tell thes=
e
> > apart. They will not know WHEN to apply one definition or the other.
> >
> > https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin/comments/24m3nb/_/ch8gua7
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

--001a1149d8c88f814c0560650e73
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">&gt;Bitcoin (BTC), Millib=
itcoin (mBTC) and Microbitcoin (=C2=B5BTC) is the=C2=A0</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px">&gt;correct&lt; approach. It&#39;s tidy, systematic a=
nd precise.</span><br><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></di=
v><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">The SI system is great, but it&#39;=
s nice if you pick a base unit that is easy for intuition to comprehend.</s=
pan></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span=
 style=3D"font-size:12.8px">It is a fact that I weigh approximately .000,00=
0,000,000,000,000,000,014 Earth masses. If we arrived at rough consensus th=
at this was a cumbersome way to express the mass of a human, we might then =
find a group of people making the superficially sensible proposal that we u=
se SI prefixes and say I weigh 14 yoctoearths. This would be tidy, systemat=
ic and precise, but that might not be enough to make it the best option.=C2=
=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">It might be even better to choos=
e a base unit that human intuition can make sense of, and THEN add prefixes=
 as needed.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></=
div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">I dislike the name &quot;bits&quo=
t; but I think 100 satoshis does make a nice base unit. If we cannot crowds=
ource a more inspiring label we may be stuck with bits just due to linguist=
ic=C2=A0network effects.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">=
<br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">-Ethan</span></div><=
div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.8px"><br></span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 1:27 AM, Marcel Jamin via bi=
tcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfo=
undation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I think one could make t=
he argument that the only people who talk<br>
about and understand 24 bit audio or 256 bit cryptography are the ones<br>
who can tell the difference very easily.<br>
<br>
To me, your example seems to try hard to make the case for a problem<br>
that won&#39;t exist in reality.<br>
<br>
Bitcoin (BTC), Millibitcoin (mBTC) and Microbitcoin (=C2=B5BTC) is the<br>
&gt;correct&lt; approach. It&#39;s tidy, systematic and precise. But that w=
on&#39;t<br>
stop people from using something that&#39;s easier to deal with as I just<b=
r>
had to google the =C2=B5 character again.<br>
<br>
Let&#39;s also keep in mind that Coinbase has been using &quot;bits&quot; a=
s the<br>
default for over 2 years now:<br>
<a href=3D"https://blog.coinbase.com/bits-is-the-new-default-and-all-new-us=
ers-get-100-bits-for-free-9165f757594b" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">https://blog.coinbase.com/<wbr>bits-is-the-new-default-and-<wbr>all-new-u=
sers-get-100-bits-<wbr>for-free-9165f757594b</a><br>
<br>
Just from a linguistic standpoint, chances are we&#39;ll end up with bits<b=
r>
anyway. Why fight it? We don&#39;t have a SI prefix educational mandate.<br=
>
<br>
Marcel<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On 14 December 2017 at 23:01, Natanael &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:natanael.l@gma=
il.com">natanael.l@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Reposting /u/BashCo&#39;s post on reddit here, for visibility:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ---8&lt;-------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<w=
br>--------<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Before anyone says &#39;bits&#39; are too confusing because it&#39=
;s a computer<br>
&gt;&gt; science term, here&#39;s a list of homonyms<br>
&gt;&gt; [<a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_true_homonyms" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/<wbr>wiki/List=
_of_true_homonyms</a>] that you use every<br>
&gt;&gt; day. Homonyms are fine because our brains are able to interpret la=
nguage<br>
&gt;&gt; based on context, so it&#39;s a non-argument.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This ignores the fact that there exists multiple meanings of bits *wit=
hin<br>
&gt; the same context*, and that beginners likely can&#39;t tell them apart=
.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Feel free to try it yourself - talk about Bitcoin &quot;bits&quot; of =
a particular<br>
&gt; value with somebody who=C2=A0 doesn&#39;t understand Bitcoin. Then exp=
lain that the<br>
&gt; cryptography uses 256 bit keys. I would be surprised if you could find=
<br>
&gt; somebody who would not be confused by that.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Let&#39;s say a website says a song is 24 bits. Was that 24 bit audio =
resolution<br>
&gt; or 24 bit price? Somebody writes about 256 bit keys, are that their si=
ze or<br>
&gt; value?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; You guys here can probably tell the difference. Can everybody...? Bits=
 will<br>
&gt; cause confusion, because plenty of people will not be able to tell the=
se<br>
&gt; apart. They will not know WHEN to apply one definition or the other.<b=
r>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin/comments/24m3nb/_/ch8gua7"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.reddit.com/r/<wbr>bitcoin=
/comments/24m3nb/_/<wbr>ch8gua7</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
</div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">_______________________=
_______<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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