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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 11:18:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: emsit <emsit@emsit.sk>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] The Future of Bitcoin Testnet
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Unfortunately, the current form of Testnet is doomed to have value, just=20
like BTC. Its scarcity makes it a valuable asset. And no reset will change=
=20
that. It will only result in repeated resets, multiple versions of testnet,=
=20
and people never learning.

When I imagine what I would have to go through to mine testnet BTC, how=20
much time and money to invest (buying/renting ASIC - CPU mining is a thing=
=20
of the past), and someone offered me a simpler alternative, to just buy it,=
=20
I probably wouldn't hesitate and would just buy it. Many people HODL=20
testnet coins precisely because it's difficult to obtain them and they=20
don't want to give them up, regardless of their economic value. People have=
=20
learned, CRYPTO =3D HODL.

In my opinion, it's more important to address the issue so that testnet=20
doesn't need to be reset. Because it angers people, even those who aren't=
=20
responsible and want to use it as intended. I'm afraid that after the=20
reset, mining will be very difficult, expensive, and impossible for most=20
people. Not everyone has an ASIC at home, and CPU mining is out of the=20
question. And faucets won't work. I'm also afraid that whales will emerge=
=20
who will mine it from the beginning while the reward is high, for worse=20
times.

I have a faucet myself and I know how my users behave, they always want=20
more, and most people HODL it. Only a negligible amount comes back to my=20
faucet. So, the idea of freely sharing is nice but unrealistic.

A reset of testnet that will be "the same" as the old one doesn't make=20
sense to me. Wouldn't it be possible to pre-mine all the coins and=20
distribute them via faucet? Or generate more than 21M? If there are a large=
=20
number of them, there will be enough for everyone and they will be=20
worthless.

D=C3=A1tum: streda 3. apr=C3=ADla 2024, =C4=8Das: 8:41:41 UTC+2, odosielate=
=C4=BE: Anthony Towns

> On Mon, Apr 01, 2024 at 01:37:59PM +0000, Pieter Wuille wrote:
> > I think there is an easier alternative to changing the supply rule: the=
=20
> intention to reset it again when its subsidy drops too low. That may even=
=20
> also counteract the development of a non-zero market price for the coins.
>
> We could put some weight behind this by committing to resetting testnet
> in advance: eg, add a rule that says "blocks are invalid after height X"
> or "after mediantime exceeds Y".
>
> Cheers,
> aj
>
>

--=20
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
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bitcoindev/7a67edd1-0182-4170-90f4-998d12431024n%40googlegroups.com.

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<p style=3D"border: 0px solid rgb(227, 227, 227); box-sizing: border-box; m=
argin: 0px 0px 1.25em; color: rgb(13, 13, 13); font-family: S=C3=B6hne, ui-=
sans-serif, system-ui, -apple-system, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, Ubuntu,=
 Cantarell, &quot;Noto Sans&quot;, sans-serif, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, =
Arial, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, &quot;Seg=
oe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Noto Color Emoji&quot;; font-size: 16px; white-sp=
ace-collapse: preserve;">Unfortunately, the current form of Testnet is doom=
ed to have value, just like BTC. Its scarcity makes it a valuable asset. An=
d no reset will change that. It will only result in repeated resets, multip=
le versions of testnet, and people never learning.</p><p style=3D"border: 0=
px solid rgb(227, 227, 227); box-sizing: border-box; margin: 1.25em 0px; co=
lor: rgb(13, 13, 13); font-family: S=C3=B6hne, ui-sans-serif, system-ui, -a=
pple-system, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, Ubuntu, Cantarell, &quot;Noto Sa=
ns&quot;, sans-serif, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Arial, &quot;Apple Color =
Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot=
;Noto Color Emoji&quot;; font-size: 16px; white-space-collapse: preserve;">=
When I imagine what I would have to go through to mine testnet BTC, how muc=
h time and money to invest (buying/renting ASIC - CPU mining is a thing of =
the past), and someone offered me a simpler alternative, to just buy it, I =
probably wouldn't hesitate and would just buy it. Many people HODL testnet =
coins precisely because it's difficult to obtain them and they don't want t=
o give them up, regardless of their economic value. People have learned, CR=
YPTO =3D HODL.</p><p style=3D"border: 0px solid rgb(227, 227, 227); box-siz=
ing: border-box; margin: 1.25em 0px; color: rgb(13, 13, 13); font-family: S=
=C3=B6hne, ui-sans-serif, system-ui, -apple-system, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, R=
oboto, Ubuntu, Cantarell, &quot;Noto Sans&quot;, sans-serif, &quot;Helvetic=
a Neue&quot;, Arial, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&qu=
ot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Noto Color Emoji&quot;; font-size: =
16px; white-space-collapse: preserve;">In my opinion, it's more important t=
o address the issue so that testnet doesn't need to be reset. Because it an=
gers people, even those who aren't responsible and want to use it as intend=
ed. I'm afraid that after the reset, mining will be very difficult, expensi=
ve, and impossible for most people. Not everyone has an ASIC at home, and C=
PU mining is out of the question. And faucets won't work. I'm also afraid t=
hat whales will emerge who will mine it from the beginning while the reward=
 is high, for worse times.</p><p style=3D"border: 0px solid rgb(227, 227, 2=
27); box-sizing: border-box; margin: 1.25em 0px; color: rgb(13, 13, 13); fo=
nt-family: S=C3=B6hne, ui-sans-serif, system-ui, -apple-system, &quot;Segoe=
 UI&quot;, Roboto, Ubuntu, Cantarell, &quot;Noto Sans&quot;, sans-serif, &q=
uot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Arial, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe=
 UI Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Noto Color Emoji&quot;;=
 font-size: 16px; white-space-collapse: preserve;">I have a faucet myself a=
nd I know how my users behave, they always want more, and most people HODL =
it. Only a negligible amount comes back to my faucet. So, the idea of freel=
y sharing is nice but unrealistic.</p><p style=3D"border: 0px solid rgb(227=
, 227, 227); box-sizing: border-box; margin: 1.25em 0px 0px; color: rgb(13,=
 13, 13); font-family: S=C3=B6hne, ui-sans-serif, system-ui, -apple-system,=
 &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, Ubuntu, Cantarell, &quot;Noto Sans&quot;, sa=
ns-serif, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Arial, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;,=
 &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;, &quot;Noto Color =
Emoji&quot;; font-size: 16px; white-space-collapse: preserve;">A reset of t=
estnet that will be "the same" as the old one doesn't make sense to me. Wou=
ldn't it be possible to pre-mine all the coins and distribute them via fauc=
et? Or generate more than 21M? If there are a large number of them, there w=
ill be enough for everyone and they will be worthless.</p><br /><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_attr">D=C3=A1tum: streda =
3. apr=C3=ADla 2024, =C4=8Das: 8:41:41 UTC+2, odosielate=C4=BE: Anthony Tow=
ns<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex=
; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">On Mon, Ap=
r 01, 2024 at 01:37:59PM +0000, Pieter Wuille wrote:
<br>&gt; I think there is an easier alternative to changing the supply rule=
: the intention to reset it again when its subsidy drops too low. That may =
even also counteract the development of a non-zero market price for the coi=
ns.
<br>
<br>We could put some weight behind this by committing to resetting testnet
<br>in advance: eg, add a rule that says &quot;blocks are invalid after hei=
ght X&quot;
<br>or &quot;after mediantime exceeds Y&quot;.
<br>
<br>Cheers,
<br>aj
<br>
<br></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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