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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 09:21:39 +0100 (CET)
From: Prayank <prayank@tutanota.de>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot activation meeting on IRC - Tuesday 16th
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>=C2=A0the last thing we need is
a rushed upgrade

Why do you think this is rushed? Speedy Trial will have few months and if U=
ASF is required it won't involve activation immediately after ST fails. Tap=
root by 2022 doesn't look rushed approach IMO.

>=C2=A0We're not changing things that we worked out already.=C2=A0

Which things have we worked out that cannot be changed or not changed earli=
er?

> how long till we go back and change the coin supply?

Coin supply has nothing to do with soft fork activation mechanism IMO.

> I understand=C2=A0some of you have no patience and would like mass adopti=
on tomorrow but=C2=A0those are exactly the people that do not have a say in=
 Bitcoin development. If you want to get rich quick you do not care about B=
itcoin.

Taproot activation or discussion about activation mechanism does not have 1=
00% correlation with mass adoption. It just improves Bitcoin and helps few =
projects mentioned in=C2=A0https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Taproot_Uses
Nobody is talking about get rich quick schemes in Taproot Activation relate=
d meetings. At least I have not seen anyone.

> If you=C2=A0want faster development=C2=A0cycles then you have lightning t=
o play with.

Better development cycles with less delay, less misinformation, less politi=
cs, less probability of things being exploited by mining pools or other peo=
ple, organization etc. with their influence. Lightning Network is a separat=
e project focused on layer 2 and I think it will also benefit from Taproot.

>=C2=A0we *DO NOT* change things we already established in the past

Interested to know who is "we" in this sentence and what are the "things" t=
hat cannot be changed.

>=C2=A0In order to solve the LOT debate lets give Wladimir the power=C2=A0t=
o decide on his own and if he has no strong opinions he should just flip a =
coin.

LOT has become LOL. If this is about Bitcoin Core maintainers deciding thin=
gs for Bitcoin Core, sure they already do. But users have the freedom to de=
cide if they want to run it with default settings or use other implementati=
on.

>=C2=A0MAST threshold can be even lower because it is not representative of=
 an economic majority=C2=A0and it could speed up the upgrade.

Agree

>=C2=A0At this point involve as few people as possible and get it done. Thi=
s is just about the=C2=A0software and the parameters of the new consesus.

Everyone should be welcome to participate in meetings, ask questions, learn=
 more and contribute. I don't see anything wrong with it.
--=20
Prayank
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    <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8=
">
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  <body>
<div>&gt;&nbsp;<span style=3D"color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-style: normal; f=
ont-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400;=
 letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; t=
ext-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -we=
bkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-dec=
oration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial; float: none; displa=
y: inline !important;"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:-apple-sys=
tem, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, &quot;Hel=
vetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&qu=
ot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;"><span class=
=3D"size" style=3D"font-size:16px">the last thing we need is</span></span><=
/span><br></div><div><span style=3D"color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-style: nor=
mal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight=
: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0p=
x; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); te=
xt-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial; float: none; =
display: inline !important;"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:-app=
le-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, &qu=
ot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, &quot;Apple Color Em=
oji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;"><span c=
lass=3D"size" style=3D"font-size:16px">a rushed upgrade</span></span></span=
><br></div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-=
style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; f=
ont-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; tex=
t-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-s=
pacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255=
, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial; flo=
at: none; display: inline !important;"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-f=
amily:-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, R=
oboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, &quot;Appl=
e Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot=
;"><span class=3D"size" style=3D"font-size:16px">Why do you think this is r=
ushed? Speedy Trial will have few months and if UASF is required it won't i=
nvolve activation immediately after ST fails. Taproot by 2022 doesn't look =
rushed approach IMO.</span></span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><spa=
n style=3D"color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatur=
es: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: no=
rmal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none=
; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-wi=
dth: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: init=
ial; text-decoration-color: initial; float: none; display: inline !importan=
t;"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:-apple-system, system-ui, Bli=
nkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, =
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI=
 Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;"><span class=3D"size" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:16px">&gt;&nbsp;We're not changing things that we worked out alread=
y.<span>&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><sp=
an style=3D"color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatu=
res: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: n=
ormal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: non=
e; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-w=
idth: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: ini=
tial; text-decoration-color: initial; float: none; display: inline !importa=
nt;"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:-apple-system, system-ui, Bl=
inkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,=
 Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe U=
I Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;"><span class=3D"size" style=3D"f=
ont-size:16px"><span>Which things have we worked out that cannot be changed=
 or not changed earlier?</span></span></span></span><br></div><div><br></di=
v><div><span style=3D"color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-style: normal; font-vari=
ant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-=
spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-tran=
sform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-tex=
t-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-=
style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial; float: none; display: inlin=
e !important;"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:-apple-system, sys=
tem-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica N=
eue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &qu=
ot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;"><span class=3D"size" =
style=3D"font-size:16px"><span>&gt; </span></span></span></span>how long ti=
ll we go back and change the coin supply?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Coin=
 supply has nothing to do with soft fork activation mechanism IMO.<br></div=
><div><br></div><div>&gt; I understand<span style=3D"color: rgb(48, 48, 48)=
; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: no=
rmal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: sta=
rt; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;=
 word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(2=
55, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initi=
al; float: none; display: inline !important;"><span class=3D"font" style=3D=
"font-family:-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&q=
uot;, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, &qu=
ot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symb=
ol&quot;"><span class=3D"size" style=3D"font-size:16px">&nbsp;some of you h=
ave no patience and would like mass adoption tomorrow but</span></span></sp=
an>&nbsp;those are exactly the people that do not have a say in Bitcoin dev=
elopment. If you want to get rich quick you do not care about Bitcoin.<br><=
/div><div><br></div><div>Taproot activation or discussion about activation =
mechanism does not have 100% correlation with mass adoption. It just improv=
es Bitcoin and helps few projects mentioned in&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://en.b=
itcoin.it/wiki/Taproot_Uses">https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Taproot_Uses</a></d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Nobody is talking about get rich quick schemes in Ta=
proot Activation related meetings. At least I have not seen anyone.<br></di=
v><div><br></div><div>&gt; If you&nbsp;<span style=3D"color: rgb(48, 48, 48=
); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: n=
ormal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: st=
art; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2=
; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(=
255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: init=
ial; float: none; display: inline !important;"><span class=3D"font" style=
=3D"font-family:-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe U=
I&quot;, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, =
&quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI S=
ymbol&quot;"><span class=3D"size" style=3D"font-size:16px">want faster deve=
lopment</span></span></span>&nbsp;cycles then you have lightning to play wi=
th.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Better development cycles with less delay,=
 less misinformation, less politics, less probability of things being explo=
ited by mining pools or other people, organization etc. with their influenc=
e. Lightning Network is a separate project focused on layer 2 and I think i=
t will also benefit from Taproot.<br></div><div><br></div><div>&gt;&nbsp;<s=
pan style=3D"color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligat=
ures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: no=
ne; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-=
width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: in=
itial; text-decoration-color: initial; float: none; display: inline !import=
ant;"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:-apple-system, system-ui, B=
linkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;=
, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe =
UI Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;"><span class=3D"size" style=3D"=
font-size:16px">we *DO NOT* change things we already established in the pas=
t</span></span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color: r=
gb(48, 48, 48); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-va=
riant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; t=
ext-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norm=
al; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; backgroun=
d-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoratio=
n-color: initial; float: none; display: inline !important;"><span class=3D"=
font" style=3D"font-family:-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont, &q=
uot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, &quot=
;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;"><span class=3D"size" style=3D"font-size:16px">Inter=
ested to know who is "we" in this sentence and what are the "things" that c=
annot be changed.</span></span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><span s=
tyle=3D"color: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures:=
 normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: norma=
l; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; w=
hite-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width=
: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial=
; text-decoration-color: initial; float: none; display: inline !important;"=
><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkM=
acSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Hel=
vetica, Arial, sans-serif, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Em=
oji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;"><span class=3D"size" style=3D"font-=
size:16px">&gt;&nbsp;In order to solve the LOT debate lets give Wladimir th=
e power</span></span></span>&nbsp;to decide on his own and if he has no str=
ong opinions he should just flip a coin.<br></div><div><br></div><div>LOT h=
as become LOL. If this is about Bitcoin Core maintainers deciding things fo=
r Bitcoin Core, sure they already do. But users have the freedom to decide =
if they want to run it with default settings or use other implementation.<b=
r></div><div><br></div><div>&gt;&nbsp;<span style=3D"color: rgb(48, 48, 48)=
; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: no=
rmal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: sta=
rt; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;=
 word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(2=
55, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initi=
al; float: none; display: inline !important;"><span class=3D"font" style=3D=
"font-family:-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&q=
uot;, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, &qu=
ot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Symb=
ol&quot;"><span class=3D"size" style=3D"font-size:16px">MAST threshold can =
be even lower because it is not representative of an economic majority</spa=
n></span></span>&nbsp;and it could speed up the upgrade.<br></div><div><br>=
</div><div>Agree<br></div><div><br></div><div>&gt;&nbsp;<span style=3D"colo=
r: rgb(48, 48, 48); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; fon=
t-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: =
2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; backg=
round-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decor=
ation-color: initial; float: none; display: inline !important;"><span class=
=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:-apple-system, system-ui, BlinkMacSystemFont=
, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Aria=
l, sans-serif, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;, &=
quot;Segoe UI Symbol&quot;"><span class=3D"size" style=3D"font-size:16px">A=
t this point involve as few people as possible and get it done. This is jus=
t about the</span></span></span>&nbsp;software and the parameters of the ne=
w consesus.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Everyone should be welcome to part=
icipate in meetings, ask questions, learn more and contribute. I don't see =
anything wrong with it.</div><div><br></div><div>-- <br></div><div>Prayank<=
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