summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/14/7a156ea33d555f801dab7adae2fd17f9035d08
blob: 096b81ca1275f16d60ef763016b955177cc0a58d (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192]
	helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
	by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <adam@cypherspace.org>) id 1Z4FNr-0000E3-0k
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Sun, 14 Jun 2015 21:24:03 +0000
X-ACL-Warn: 
Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.197])
	by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256)
	(Exim 4.76) id 1Z4FNp-00078T-So
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Sun, 14 Jun 2015 21:24:03 +0000
Received: from mail-qg0-f44.google.com ([209.85.192.44]) by mrelay.perfora.net
	(mreueus001) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M9qO6-1YtDoi0Day-00B8Kx for
	<bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
	Sun, 14 Jun 2015 23:23:56 +0200
Received: by qgf75 with SMTP id 75so21825236qgf.1
	for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
	Sun, 14 Jun 2015 14:23:55 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.140.101.97 with SMTP id t88mr32198522qge.9.1434317035453;
	Sun, 14 Jun 2015 14:23:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.96.20.164 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Jun 2015 14:23:55 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 23:23:55 +0200
Message-ID: <CALqxMTHrnSS9MGgKO-5+=fVhiOOvk12Recs11S0PcSUxQT1wdQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Adam Back <adam@cypherspace.org>
To: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:obEbCT23uz6Jsb72clfJNH3seFZDadU1F6o0dTLBiqUSOUmiJAl
	ehVjtl/NCHyLK+tS29RjE+zUyM9MnNFhKfYke4lEUOom/mbxb5DDt+yxogstSklJTg/yNSD
	FzdaAFbo3dUaCo8B3J/MfZGtZ/RCmq3834bwoYSI5yOiPfPyfnK6Frj0Mfb2TXu7l9apTBC
	Vnh0nZTjmcHR/NeSV9jNQ==
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:2f4Uy35bsKA=:jgPDJN7IRPrDSR08u28CAu
	euOlurrrYmQ7VYbhD7r/sBkIQzOYXuxC9o2XtNoxvh2ykGAoXorRsMuYSa1v0J7NO4HiVXqmG
	5FWU1QI4FNwG0jQbU9+0ycwe7SQf6COu3YoDZkeP4gvS5mkiE24eC6ah1SJl3TnRzmYKatOSb
	fgWMh3ErtJZAWzHoip9h73X5LKgkPukYfW28CgaZcXSm9LtoeKFwX21u6YFlkgqzo+S4KckEe
	V5ygknruBoWjAkPvhYRBOYETUmXM4o6uqKepsZv8IHQnn5aB9xe3fjbw3ETXZU83RmF0c43NH
	DdF8Hv6bhPpkPpisMXZZCSeVPHU8YtDl4s97AcDkgO6JPmSUFXZxqR02qqbcVwyAH5jKwavQ9
	z5VuMvYr5j8tHeYnpYlX18xRjlc67yBia0VH5FHd4FcULNvbLJJDlMS9rr3QF+AHHMkzAQXjA
	Nzgy3qJG5qzie7vD9aNJRpvl4luPXRlcCE/ZnpIsuKJNj78uLQ62fKVdZM1QlxwPtWzACA6nx
	ltAfWVhvltrE8pXI6uX5pLBlLbxGmj4ht/T7cgwDtZwLCtn/Kqys+3+FLQCx5eKxcRXzQziLK
	2NJVuaOhTypGmHnAfFilwu0iQ8JFCW4urc4/RIJH9LnGERcMEEinqjraBgdEuOwXVJJIFBPrF
	lCyms4XQdHiwgbBE6e4QYMA7aF+tWWaescgOUNuJ3Qv3b9g==
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
	See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
	-0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/,
	no trust [74.208.4.197 listed in list.dnswl.org]
	-0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS          SPF: HELO matches SPF record
X-Headers-End: 1Z4FNp-00078T-So
Subject: [Bitcoin-development] comments on BIP 100
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 21:24:03 -0000

Hi

I made these comments elsewhere, but I think really we should be
having these kind of conversations here rather than scattered around.

These are about Jeff Garzik's outline draft BIP 100 I guess this is
the latest draft:  (One good thing about getting off SF would be
finally JGarzik's emails actually not getting blocked!).

http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/BIP100-blocksizechangeproposal.pdf

may have changed since the original [1]

Over the original proposal:

1. there should be a hard cap, not indefinitely growing.

2. there should be  a growth limiter (no more than X%/year)

3. I think the miners should not be given a vote that has no costs to
cast, because their interests are not necessarily aligned with users
or businesses.

I think Greg Maxwell's difficulty adjust [2] is better here for that
reason.  It puts quadratic cost via higher difficulty for miners to
vote to increase block-size, which miners can profitably do if there
are transactions with fees available to justify it. There is also the
growth limiter as part of Greg's proposal. [3]

I think bitcoin will have to involve layering models that uplift
security to higher layers, but preserve security assurances, and
smart-contracts even, with protocols that improve the algorithmic
complexity beyond O(n^2) in users, like lightning, and there are
multiple other candidates with useful tradeoffs for various use-cases.

One thing that is concerning is that few in industry seem inclined to
take any development initiatives or even integrate a library.  I
suppose eventually that problem would self-correct as new startups
would make a more scalable wallet and services that are layer2 aware
and eat the lunch of the laggards.  But it will be helpful if we
expose companies to the back-pressure actually implied by an O(n^2)
scaling protocol and don't just immediately increase the block-size to
levels that are dangerous for decentralisation security, as an
interventionist subsidy to save them having to do basic integration
work.  Otherwise I think whichever any kind of kick the can some 2-5
years down the road we consider, we risk the whole saga repeating in a
few years, when no algorithmic progress has been made and even more
protocol inertia has set in.

Adam

[1] original proposal comments on reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/39kzyt/draft_bip_100_soft_fork_block_size_increase/

[2] flexcap propoal by Greg Maxwell see post by Mark Freidenbach
https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg07599.html

[3] growth limited proposal for flexcap by Greg Maxwell
https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg07620.html