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From: Daniel Robinson <danrobinson010@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 15:41:32 +0000
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To: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= <jtimon@jtimon.cc>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
Luv Khemani <luvb@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP proposal: Inhibiting a covert attack on the
Bitcoin POW function
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I think you're misreading Luv. He's defending the idea of blocking covert
ASICBOOST, not defending ASICBOOST.
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 11:16 AM Jorge Tim=C3=B3n via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Luv Khemani via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> >
> > Just to add on to the ethical issue of blocking this.
> >
> >
> > If blocking the covert form of ASICBOOST is seen as unethical, then the
> same can be said about libsecp256k1, various client optimisations,
> Compactblocks.
>
> This is simply a non sequitur. These optimizations benefit users. On
> the other hand, asicboost doesn't benefit users in any way, it only
> benefits some miners if and only if not all miners use it. It
> obviously harms the miners that aren't using it by making them less
> profitable (maybe to the point that they lose money).
> If all miners use it or if no one of them uses it is equivalent from
> the point of view of the user. In fact, the very fact of allowing it
> makes the network less secure unless every single honest miner uses
> it, for an attacker could use it against the network.
>
> Even if asicboost was good for users in any way (which as explained
> isn't), this proposal doesn't disable it, only the covert form that
> cannot be proven to be used.
>
> Therefore there's no rational arguments to oppose this proposal unless
> you are (or are invested in):
>
> A) A Miner currently using the covert form of asicboost.
>
> B) A Miner planning to use the covert form of asicboost soon.
>
> C) An attacker using or planning to use the covert form of asicboost.
>
> > All of which seek to reduce the efficacy of large miners and selfish
> mining.
>
> Asicboost doesn't seek this and doesn't help with this in any way.
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
--f4030435b620968c48054c815873
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I think you're misreading Luv. He's defending the =
idea of blocking=C2=A0covert ASICBOOST, not defending ASICBOOST.<br><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 11:16 AM Jo=
rge Tim=C3=B3n via bitcoin-dev <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linu=
xfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Luv Khem=
ani via bitcoin-dev<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" class=3D"gmail=
_msg" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote=
:<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
><br class=3D"gmail_msg">
> Just to add on to the ethical issue of blocking this.<br class=3D"gmai=
l_msg">
><br class=3D"gmail_msg">
><br class=3D"gmail_msg">
> If blocking the covert form of ASICBOOST is seen as unethical, then th=
e same can be said about libsecp256k1, various client optimisations, Compac=
tblocks.<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
This is simply a non sequitur. These optimizations benefit users. On<br cla=
ss=3D"gmail_msg">
the other hand, asicboost doesn't benefit users in any way, it only<br =
class=3D"gmail_msg">
benefits some miners if and only if not all miners use it. It<br class=3D"g=
mail_msg">
obviously harms the miners that aren't using it by making them less<br =
class=3D"gmail_msg">
profitable (maybe to the point that they lose money).<br class=3D"gmail_msg=
">
If all miners use it or if no one of them uses it is equivalent from<br cla=
ss=3D"gmail_msg">
the point of view of the user. In fact, the very fact of allowing it<br cla=
ss=3D"gmail_msg">
makes the network less secure unless every single honest miner uses<br clas=
s=3D"gmail_msg">
it, for an attacker could use it against the network.<br class=3D"gmail_msg=
">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
Even if asicboost was good for users in any way (which as explained<br clas=
s=3D"gmail_msg">
isn't), this proposal doesn't disable it, only the covert form that=
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
cannot be proven to be used.<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
Therefore there's no rational arguments to oppose this proposal unless<=
br class=3D"gmail_msg">
you are (or are invested in):<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
A) A Miner currently using the covert form of asicboost.<br class=3D"gmail_=
msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
B) A Miner planning to use the covert form of asicboost soon.<br class=3D"g=
mail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
C) An attacker using or planning to use the covert form of asicboost.<br cl=
ass=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
> All of which seek to reduce the efficacy of large miners and selfish m=
ining.<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
Asicboost doesn't seek this and doesn't help with this in any way.<=
br class=3D"gmail_msg">
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br class=3D"gmail_msg">
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" class=3D"gmail_msg=
" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br class=3D"g=
mail_msg">
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" class=3D"gmail_msg" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linu=
xfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br class=3D"gmail_msg">
</blockquote></div></div>
--f4030435b620968c48054c815873--
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