1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
|
Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <pete@petertodd.org>) id 1YDcPT-0001n2-IC
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:16:11 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org
designates 62.13.148.110 as permitted sender)
client-ip=62.13.148.110; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org;
helo=outmail148110.authsmtp.com;
Received: from outmail148110.authsmtp.com ([62.13.148.110])
by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
id 1YDcPS-00020t-6Z for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:16:11 +0000
Received: from mail-c237.authsmtp.com (mail-c237.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.237])
by punt14.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id t0KHG3DN050318;
Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:16:03 GMT
Received: from muck (VELOCITY-IN.edge8.SanJose1.Level3.net [4.30.150.186])
(authenticated bits=128)
by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t0KHFwC7039196
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO);
Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:16:01 GMT
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 12:15:57 -0500
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Daniel Stadulis <dstadulis@gmail.com>,
bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
Message-ID: <20150120171557.GA29353@muck>
References: <20150120154641.GA32556@muck>
<CAHpxFbEoDLMGKB7arHbgB+4kx8BwgcX7nBUZz6yP9k4LjZeu1A@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAHpxFbEoDLMGKB7arHbgB+4kx8BwgcX7nBUZz6yP9k4LjZeu1A@mail.gmail.com>
X-Server-Quench: 024dffab-a0c8-11e4-9f74-002590a135d3
X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at:
http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse
X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR
aAdMdAIUElQaAgsB AmMbWlNeUVt7WWE7 bxRSbRtcZ0pQXg1s
T01BRU1TWkFoemR3 QW0ZUhp7dgxANndw bE8sXnJfCBIsJBRg
E04HHXAHZDJkdWlJ V0RFdwNWdQpKLx5G bwR8GhFYa3VsFCMk
FAgyOXU9MCtSLCNN RwwLMWdafUYGVjox SBkGVS8uBk4eDyI9
ZxU7NllZAV4dO1kz N1RpRlscNxIOaEVF GE9RHyZDKgpJTDcw
EQRWXEcaWCdQRS5A AxouOR9JGic6
X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1024:706
X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255)
X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 4.30.150.186/587
X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own
anti-virus system.
X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
X-Headers-End: 1YDcPS-00020t-6Z
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] The legal risks of auto-updating wallet
software; custodial relationships
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:16:11 -0000
--3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 08:43:57AM -0800, Daniel Stadulis wrote:
> Hey Peter,
>=20
> What would you say to the argument: given developers have auto update
> capabilities they only have the ability to *give themselves* *the ability=
* to
> have custodial rights?
Heh, well, courts tend not to have the narrow-minded pedantic logic that
programmers do; quite likely that they'd see having the ability to give
themselves the ability as equivalent to simply having the ability. What
matters more is intent: the authors of an operating system had no intent
to have a custodial relationship over anyones' BTC, so they'd be off the
hook. The authors of a Bitcoin wallet on the other hand, depends on how
you go about it.
For instance Lighthouse has something called UpdateFX, which allows for
multi-signature updates. It also supports deterministic builds, and
allows users to chose whether or not they'll follow new updates
automatically, or only update on demand. In a court that could be all
brought up as examples of intent *not* to have a custodial relationship,
which may be enough to sway judge/jury, and certainly will help avoid
ending up in court in the first place by virtue of the fact that all
those protections help avoid theft, and increase the # of people that an
authority need to involve to seize funds via an update.
--=20
'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
00000000000000001a5e1dc75b28e8445c6e8a5c35c76637e33a3e96d487b74c
--3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: Digital signature
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----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==
=nRuq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF--
|