1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
|
Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <mark@monetize.io>) id 1WXzZA-0000eO-Qi
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Wed, 09 Apr 2014 20:57:52 +0000
Received: from mail-pd0-f172.google.com ([209.85.192.172])
by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
(Exim 4.76) id 1WXzZ9-0000yd-9g
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Wed, 09 Apr 2014 20:57:52 +0000
Received: by mail-pd0-f172.google.com with SMTP id p10so2936310pdj.3
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
Wed, 09 Apr 2014 13:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20130820;
h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent
:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type
:content-transfer-encoding;
bh=4IIt3NhhzjDZKqjEMxjbl5FbAnrZ9BQkxEz8FYhIr5k=;
b=Sp2H2SZslqtr8nYXHwenytFk7hPsW3lcY6sVeKqVxCJloI6/g9qAUlkGHgNUzCfVYe
b0IFpxWXeYx1A9RWzlTT310JH5miFxXeT6gK3/pUzyIX+wcq7wpwXOX9FyS+NGptF1RA
tc5wKhARSTCNJ6kTdkRR8tYqdei2VkA/zSfJgUk1yn1pCH7t6tMWJz0IHO99H+rQGTze
yZFQ1MJZOp17VWVsacceZmFwa7bVrppk/VKO6SQfqlHf5y/DXym9Ud46CyWs1ytvrCLf
zcdSFGLle/A5LSnpTCebm9UDOTnRvV2n+MfPo/fSUXOUpd7TushM1p2Cke2529SCvSPo
VSOw==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkLua2H1aMufYlbzmtmxr+W5A/E5OQGI/XMulRVLl/SfDsVtKA6a/ODDwpEJVSmukWNIl11
X-Received: by 10.66.144.102 with SMTP id sl6mr14681546pab.96.1397077065155;
Wed, 09 Apr 2014 13:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.127.223] (50-0-36-93.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net.
[50.0.36.93])
by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id sy1sm9878608pab.30.2014.04.09.13.57.43
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
(version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
Wed, 09 Apr 2014 13:57:44 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <5345AF53.8070700@monetize.io>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 13:36:35 -0700
From: Mark Friedenbach <mark@monetize.io>
Organization: Monetize.io Inc.
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
References: <CA+s+GJCn9U2kmyMH6w3o+m99NCfO0ws=SccvGBYJv07WVuF=eA@mail.gmail.com> <CAADm4BCEFCiOpNzUThPPHUamP2256izU8pwD3nerLCxks0wENA@mail.gmail.com> <CAAS2fgTx40XSLhiygnJMrSbOC=iJ2YMVLNK7-AMt3ifvAHDZUA@mail.gmail.com> <E9BAD633-3B6A-4A2C-AA06-DB591973DF66@bitsofproof.com> <53456B99.9010207@monetize.io> <B2FEC170-7214-4E46-8830-153995870B62@bitsofproof.com> <00b77560-d7ed-4ed4-a4e5-eb1f00467a06@email.android.com> <0509477C-89F9-47C7-8820-29ACAD4A4A8E@bitsofproof.com> <CANEZrP2Q=TG+jejEVFFh5FhjzDDkySHNSTfwtKueLcHu=pB6Kw@mail.gmail.com> <CA+s+GJBRvDFgktTgW2sCvAVahrjxcGqfgHw0BVNPvwUupotVrg@mail.gmail.com> <534592E2.7040800@gmail.com> <CAAS2fgS3q6N9go-NSKdjLwgU_5bFwa8YE88DcjNYHQTwzPCn3Q@mail.gmail.com> <5345986C.3040901@gmail.com> <CAAS2fgQyXHNnBDKoUMd_=-=1irGJ6cFKwi59enLJvFJiWBv50A@mail.gmail.com> <CAJna-Hj1U5cQ22bSXoNB-4ck_urCuS9xCk+iEHsbh+yv17MP7A@mail.gmail.com>
<CAJna-HiwRcvY1xPg5pkZDyjQhimnNiLM9a16YHOPu+ggod6A5A@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAJna-HiwRcvY1xPg5pkZDyjQhimnNiLM9a16YHOPu+ggod6A5A@mail.gmail.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/,
no trust [209.85.192.172 listed in list.dnswl.org]
X-Headers-End: 1WXzZ9-0000yd-9g
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV
wallets
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 20:57:53 -0000
I've advocated for this in the past, and reasonable counter-arguments I
was presented with are: (1) bittorrent is horribly insecure - it would
be easy to DoS the initial block download if that were the goal, and (2)
there's a reasonable pathway to doing this all in-protocol, so there's
no reason to introduce external dependencies.
On 04/09/2014 01:31 PM, slush wrote:
> Another idea: Integrate torrent download of bootstrap.dat into bitcoind.
> Normal user (especially a beginner) won't learn how to download
> bootstrap separately and import it into bitcoind; he simply give up the
> synchronization once he realize it takes too much time. From my
> experience downloading the bootstrap significantly improves catching the
> blockchain, which may attract some more users to run bitcoind.
>
> Not sure about C++, but simple torrent client in python is like 30 lines
> of code (using libtorrent).
>
> Marek
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 10:12 PM, slush <slush@centrum.cz
> <mailto:slush@centrum.cz>> wrote:
>
> I believe there're plenty bitcoind instances running, but they don't
> have configured port forwarding properly.There's uPNP support in
> bitcoind, but it works only on simple setups.
>
> Maybe there're some not yet considered way how to expose these
> *existing* instances to Internet, to strenghten the network. Maybe
> just self-test indicating the node is not reachable from outside
> (together with short howto like in some torrent clients).
>
> These days IPv6 is slowly deploying to server environments, but
> maybe there's some simple way how to bundle ipv6 tunnelling into
> bitcoind so any instance will become ipv6-reachable automatically?
>
> Maybe there're other ideas how to improve current situation without
> needs of reworking the architecture.
>
> Marek
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com
> <mailto:gmaxwell@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Justus Ranvier
> <justusranvier@gmail.com <mailto:justusranvier@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Anyone reading the archives of the list will see about triple the
> > number of people independently confirming the resource usage
> problem
> > than they will see denying it, so I'm not particularly worried.
>
> The list has open membership, there is no particular
> qualification or
> background required to post here. Optimal use of an information
> source
> requires critical reading and understanding the limitations of the
> medium. Counting comments is usually not a great way to assess
> technical considerations on an open public forum. Doubly so because
> those comments were not actually talking about the same thing I am
> talking about.
>
> Existing implementations are inefficient in many known ways (and, no
> doubt, some unknown ones). This list is about developing
> protocol and
> implementations including improving their efficiency. When talking
> about incentives the costs you need to consider are the costs of the
> best realistic option. As far as I know there is no doubt from
> anyone
> technically experienced that under the current network rules full
> nodes can be operated with vastly less resources than current
> implementations use, it's just a question of the relatively modest
> implementation improvements.
>
> When you argue that Bitcoin doesn't have the right incentives (and
> thus something??) I retort that the actual resource
> _requirements_ are
> for the protocol very low. I gave specific example numbers to enable
> correction or clarification if I've said something wrong or
> controversial. Pointing out that existing implementations are
> not that
> currently as efficient as the underlying requirements and that some
> large number of users do not like the efficiency of existing
> implementations doesn't tell me anything I disagree with or didn't
> already know. Whats being discussed around here contributes to
> prioritizing improvements over the existing implementations.
>
> I hope this clarifies something.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Put Bad Developers to Shame
> Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration
> Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment
> Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Put Bad Developers to Shame
> Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration
> Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment
> Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
|
