1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
|
Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <mh.in.england@gmail.com>) id 1W82Ff-0002o4-VB
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Tue, 28 Jan 2014 06:34:28 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
designates 209.85.214.182 as permitted sender)
client-ip=209.85.214.182; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com;
helo=mail-ob0-f182.google.com;
Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com ([209.85.214.182])
by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
(Exim 4.76) id 1W82Fe-0004mX-63
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Tue, 28 Jan 2014 06:34:27 +0000
Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id wm4so7621685obc.13
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:34:20 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.182.16.33 with SMTP id c1mr27290797obd.4.1390890860727; Mon,
27 Jan 2014 22:34:20 -0800 (PST)
Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com
Received: by 10.76.99.112 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:34:20 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <E1FDB3F2-25ED-4B99-979E-12CE943CBD66@kill-bill.org>
References: <E1FDB3F2-25ED-4B99-979E-12CE943CBD66@kill-bill.org>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 07:34:20 +0100
X-Google-Sender-Auth: fpk8Luz6J9EUL5X9w9YYl0rMzRQ
Message-ID: <CANEZrP10z6_UAHD97mj22kVEGyXgHPQ2PdP_8RxHT5Py+xRP_A@mail.gmail.com>
From: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
To: Stephane Brossier <stephane@kill-bill.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04479f93acd46f04f10203b2
X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
(mh.in.england[at]gmail.com)
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
not necessarily valid
-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
X-Headers-End: 1W82Fe-0004mX-63
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
Pierre-Alexandre Meyer <pierre@kill-bill.org>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Extension for BIP-0070 to support
recurring payments
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 06:34:28 -0000
--f46d04479f93acd46f04f10203b2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think the right approach for this is to actually implement it and
*then* propose
a BIP. There are so many possible features we could add to the payment
protocol, any other approach would rapidly turn into lots of people
deciding to do the "fun bits" and often leaving others doing the hard work
with difficult or unworkable specs.
For instance, if you try to implement this, you would rapidly discover that
it probably makes more sense to do this as an additional set of fields in
PaymentDetails rather than a new message type entirely. A new top level
message type would in turn require new MIME types, URI extensions and so
on. That doesn't make any sense.
Once you decide to extend PaymentDetails, the next discovery would be that
it probably makes sense to try and solve the problem of address re-use for
recurring payments first, before speccing out time intervals and so on.
That's a separate BIP.
I'm all for adding recurring payments as a feature, that's what the
protocol is there for. But I'd like to see future protocol extension
requests come after at least one working implementation has been made .....
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 3:36 AM, Stephane Brossier
<stephane@kill-bill.org>wrote:
> Hi,
>
> [I sent this email 2 days ago prior my registration to the mailing list;
> please forgive me if this is a duplicate]
>
> I would like to propose an extension to the Payment Protocol (bip-0070) t=
o
> address the case of recurring payments in Bitcoin -- new bip or
> modification of bip-0070.
>
> There has been a lot of growth in the last few years in the 'subscription
> economy' with many new companies embracing that model -- online video,
> gaming, groceries, newspapers,... In parallel, Bitcoin is growing into a
> mainstream currency (hence bip-0070), and so the next logical step would =
be
> to define a protocol to address that need.
>
> We have been working in the past few years on an open-source billing
> platform (http://kill-bill.org/), and recently came with a prototype to
> do recurring billing in Bitcoin (see
> http://thekillbillstory.wordpress.com/2014/01/20/bitcoin-plugin/ and
> http://thekillbillstory.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/coinbase-integration-exp=
eriment/
> ).
>
>
> The work flow would look similar to the one from bip-0070. There would
> need to be some additions; the flow could be summarized as follow:
>
> 0. Click: 'Subscribe Now'
> 1. Wallet would get a RecurringPaymentRequestAuth which describes the
> nature of the future recurring payments
> 2. The Customer would get prompted from the wallet to authorize it.
> 3. The wallet would then poll the Merchant server (startup time, and/or
> well defined frequency) and potentially merchant would start issuing a
> PaymentRequest); the role of the wallet is to ensure that PaymentRequest =
is
> within the bounds of what was accepted by the customer-- amount,
> frequency,.. If it is, then it would make the Payment the same way it wor=
ks
> for bip-0070
>
> Is that something that the community would be interested in? We could
> provide more details about the protocol we have in mind (messages and
> flow), and also provide an implementation with bitcoinj as a wallet and
> Kill Bill as a merchant server.
>
> Le me know what you think.
>
> St=C3=A9phane
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
> WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable
> security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key
> security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import
> a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds.
>
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D123612991&iu=3D/4140/ostg=
.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
--f46d04479f93acd46f04f10203b2
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">I think the right approach for this is to actually impleme=
nt it and <i>then</i>=C2=A0propose a BIP. There are so many possible featur=
es we could add to the payment protocol, any other approach would rapidly t=
urn into lots of people deciding to do the "fun bits" and often l=
eaving others doing the hard work with difficult or unworkable specs.<div>
<br></div><div>For instance, if you try to implement this, you would rapidl=
y discover that it probably makes more sense to do this as an additional se=
t of fields in PaymentDetails rather than a new message type entirely. A ne=
w top level message type would in turn require new MIME types, URI extensio=
ns and so on. That doesn't make any sense.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Once you decide to extend PaymentDetails, the next disc=
overy would be that it probably makes sense to try and solve the problem of=
address re-use for recurring payments first, before speccing out time inte=
rvals and so on. That's a separate BIP.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I'm all for adding recurring payments as a feature,=
that's what the protocol is there for. But I'd like to see future =
protocol extension requests come after at least one working implementation =
has been made .....</div>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue,=
Jan 28, 2014 at 3:36 AM, Stephane Brossier <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=
=3D"mailto:stephane@kill-bill.org" target=3D"_blank">stephane@kill-bill.org=
</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>Hi,=
</div><div><div><br></div><div>[I sent this email 2 days ago prior my regis=
tration to the mailing list; please forgive me if this is a duplicate]</div=
>
<div><br></div><div>I would like to propose an extension to the Payment Pro=
tocol (bip-0070) to address the case of recurring payments in Bitcoin -- ne=
w bip or modification of=C2=A0bip-0070.</div><div><br></div><div>There has =
been a lot of growth in the last few years in the 'subscription economy=
' with many new companies embracing that model -- online video, gaming,=
groceries, newspapers,... In parallel, Bitcoin is growing into a mainstrea=
m currency (hence=C2=A0bip-0070), and so the next logical step would be to =
define a protocol to address that need.</div>
<div><br></div><div>We have been working in the past few years on an open-s=
ource billing platform (<a href=3D"http://kill-bill.org/" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://kill-bill.org/</a>), and recently came with a prototype to do recur=
ring billing in Bitcoin (see=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://thekillbillstory.wordpr=
ess.com/2014/01/20/bitcoin-plugin/" target=3D"_blank">http://thekillbillsto=
ry.wordpress.com/2014/01/20/bitcoin-plugin/</a>=C2=A0and=C2=A0<a href=3D"ht=
tp://thekillbillstory.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/coinbase-integration-experim=
ent/" target=3D"_blank">http://thekillbillstory.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/co=
inbase-integration-experiment/</a>).</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>The work flow would look similar to the =
one from bip-0070. There would need to be some additions; the flow could be=
summarized as follow:</div><div><br></div><div>0. Click: 'Subscribe No=
w'</div>
<div>1. Wallet would get =C2=A0a RecurringPaymentRequestAuth which describe=
s the nature of the future recurring payments</div><div>2. The Customer wou=
ld get prompted from the wallet to authorize it.</div><div>3. The wallet wo=
uld then poll the Merchant server (startup time, and/or well defined freque=
ncy) and potentially merchant would start issuing a PaymentRequest); the ro=
le of the wallet is to ensure that PaymentRequest is within the bounds of w=
hat was accepted by the customer-- amount, frequency,.. If it is, then it w=
ould make the Payment the same way it works for bip-0070</div>
<div><br></div><div>Is that something that the community would be intereste=
d in? We could provide more details about the protocol we have in mind (mes=
sages and flow), and also provide an implementation with bitcoinj as a wall=
et and Kill Bill as a merchant server.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Le me know what you think.</div><div><br></div><div>St=
=C3=A9phane</div></div></div><br>------------------------------------------=
------------------------------------<br>
WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable<br>
security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key<br>
security issues and trends. =C2=A0Skip the complicated setup - simply impor=
t<br>
a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds.<br>
<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D123612991&iu=
=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam=
pad/clk?id=3D123612991&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>__________________=
_____________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
--f46d04479f93acd46f04f10203b2--
|
