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Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 14:47:18 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] replace-by-fee v0.10.0rc4
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Arriving slightly late to the discussion, apologies.
Personally I wouldn't have written that patch, but I know development of
hostile patches happens out of sight, and if it can be written, we have
to presume it will be written eventually. I'd have preferred a patch
that only replaced non-final txes, which is the use-case I have for
transaction replacement, but that's easy to add back in.
I'm certainly not terribly convinced of the security of vanilla
zero-confirmation transactions myself, for reasons including but not
limited to this case. I also think it's important to understand that
people do make irrational decisions, and trusting network security on
everyone behaving perfectly rationally is not a workable model either.
TLDR; me too
Ross
On 12/02/15 20:36, Allen Piscitello wrote:
> You keep making moral judgements. Reality is, if you live in a world with
> arsonists, you need to have a building that won't catch on fire, or has
> fire extinguishers in place. Do not depend on arsonists ignoring you
> forever as your security model. Penetration testing to know what
> weaknesses exist, what limitations exist, and what can be improved is
> essential. Keeping your head in the sand and hoping people choose to do
> the right thing only ends one way.
>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:52 PM, Justus Ranvier <justusranvier@riseup.net>
> wrote:
>
> On 02/12/2015 07:47 PM, Allen Piscitello wrote:
> >>> Nothing will stop that. Bitcoin needs to deal with those issues,
> >>> not stick our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist out of
> >>> benevolence. This isn't a pet solution, but the rules of the
> >>> protocol and what is realistically possible given the nature of
> >>> distributed consensus. Relying on altruism is a recipe for
> >>> failure.
>
> If there's a risk of fire burning down wooden buildings, pass out fire
> extinguishers and smoke detectors, not matches.
>
> The latter makes one an arsonist.
>
>>
>>
>>
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<br>
Arriving slightly late to the discussion, apologies.<br>
<br>
Personally I wouldn't have written that patch, but I know
development of hostile patches happens out of sight, and if it can
be written, we have to presume it will be written eventually. I'd
have preferred a patch that only replaced non-final txes, which is
the use-case I have for transaction replacement, but that's easy to
add back in.<br>
<br>
I'm certainly not terribly convinced of the security of vanilla
zero-confirmation transactions myself, for reasons including but not
limited to this case. I also think it's important to understand that
people do make irrational decisions, and trusting network security
on everyone behaving perfectly rationally is not a workable model
either.<br>
<br>
TLDR; me too<br>
<br>
Ross<br>
<br>
On 12/02/15 20:36, Allen Piscitello wrote:<br>
<span style=3D"white-space: pre;">> You keep making moral
judgements.=A0 Reality is, if you live in a world with<br>
> arsonists, you need to have a building that won't catch on
fire, or has<br>
> fire extinguishers in place.=A0 Do not depend on arsonists
ignoring you<br>
> forever as your security model.=A0 Penetration testing to know
what<br>
> weaknesses exist, what limitations exist, and what can be
improved is<br>
> essential.=A0 Keeping your head in the sand and hoping people
choose to do<br>
> the right thing only ends one way.<br>
><br>
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:52 PM, Justus Ranvier
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:justusranvier@ris=
eup.net"><justusranvier@riseup.net></a><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
> On 02/12/2015 07:47 PM, Allen Piscitello wrote:<br>
> >>> Nothing will stop that.=A0 Bitcoin needs to deal
with those issues,<br>
> >>> not stick our heads in the sand and pretend they
don't exist out of<br>
> >>> benevolence. This isn't a pet solution, but the
rules of the<br>
> >>> protocol and what is realistically possible
given the nature of<br>
> >>> distributed consensus.=A0 Relying on altruism is =
a
recipe for<br>
> >>> failure.<br>
><br>
> If there's a risk of fire burning down wooden buildings, pass
out fire<br>
> extinguishers and smoke detectors, not matches.<br>
><br>
> The latter makes one an arsonist.<br>
><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----<br>
>> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go
Parallel Website,<br>
>> sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with
Slashdot Media, is<br>
>> your<br>
>> hub for all things parallel software development, from
weekly thought<br>
>> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials
and more. Take a<br>
>> look and join the conversation now.
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://goparallel.source=
forge.net/">http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/</a><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
>> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:Bitco=
in-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourcefor=
ge.net</a><br>
>>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://lists.sourceforg=
e.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development">https://lists.sourceforge.net/l=
ists/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----<br>
> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel
Website,<br>
> sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot
Media, is your<br>
> hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly
thought<br>
> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and
more. Take a<br>
> look and join the conversation now.
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://goparallel.source=
forge.net/">http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-d=
evelopment@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.n=
et</a><br>
>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://lists.sourceforg=
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ists/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a></span><br>
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