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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal to address Bitcoin malware
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TREZOR does not support BIP70. I think they planned to work on it after
multi-sig support, which is now done, so I'm hoping that it's next on their
roadmap.
The signing features of BIP70 have (fortunately!) been implemented by
payment processors quite early, before we really have the client side fully
figured out and implemented. Mobile wallets (Android, iOS) do implement it
and they are reasonably secure, for desktops we need TREZOR and we need the
Bitcoin Authenticator 2-factor wallet to support it. I think they do, but
can't remember exactly. Either they do, or it's on their roadmap.
On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Martin Habov=C5=A1tiak <
martin.habovstiak@gmail.com> wrote:
> BIP70 is quite safe agains MitB. If user copies URL belonging to other
> merchant, he would see the fact after entering it into his wallet
> application. The only problem is, attacker can buy from the same
> merchant with user's money. (sending him different URL) This can be
> mitigated by merchant setting "memo" to the description of the basket
> and some user info (e.g. address to which goods are sent).
>
> But if whole computer is compromised, you're already screwed. Trezor
> should help, but I'm not sure if it supports BIP70.
>
> 2015-02-01 14:49 GMT+02:00 Brian Erdelyi <brian.erdelyi@gmail.com>:
> >
> > In online banking, the banks generate account numbers. An attacker
> cannot
> > generate their own account number and the likelihood of an attacker
> having
> > the same account number that I am trying to transfer funds to is low an=
d
> > this is why OCRA is effective with online banking.
> >
> > With Bitcoin, the Bitcoin address is comparable to the recipient=E2=80=
=99s bank
> > account number. I now see how an an attacker can brute force the
> bitcoin
> > address with vanitygen. Is there any way to generate an 8 digit number
> from
> > the bitcoin address that can be used to verify transactions in such a w=
ay
> > (possibly with hashing?) that brute forcing a bitcoin address would tak=
e
> > longer than a reasonable period of time (say 60 seconds) so a system
> could
> > time out if a transaction was not completed in that time?
> >
> > I=E2=80=99ve also looked into BIP70 (Payment Protocol) that claims prot=
ection
> > against man-in-the-middle/man-in-the-browser (MitB) based attacks. A
> common
> > way to protect against this is with out-of-band transaction verificatio=
n
> > (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-in-the-browser#Out-of-band_transaction_v=
erification
> ).
> > I see how BIP 70 verifies the payment request, however, is there any wa=
y
> to
> > verify that the transaction signed by the wallet matches the request
> before
> > it is sent to the blockchain (and how can this support out of band
> > verification)? Perhaps this is something that can only be supported wh=
en
> > sending money with web based wallets.
> >
> > Brian Erdelyi
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
> > Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website,
> > sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is
> your
> > hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought
> > leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Tak=
e
> a
> > look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website,
> sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is
> your
> hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought
> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take =
a
> look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">TREZOR does not support BIP70. I think they planned to wor=
k on it after multi-sig support, which is now done, so I'm hoping that =
it's next on their roadmap.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>The signing featur=
es of BIP70 have (fortunately!) been implemented by payment processors quit=
e early, before we really have the client side fully figured out and implem=
ented. Mobile wallets (Android, iOS) do implement it and they are reasonabl=
y secure, for desktops we need TREZOR and we need the Bitcoin Authenticator=
2-factor wallet to support it. I think they do, but can't remember exa=
ctly. Either they do, or it's on their roadmap.</div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:31=
PM, Martin Habov=C5=A1tiak <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:martin.=
habovstiak@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">martin.habovstiak@gmail.com</a>>=
</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">BIP70 is quite safe agains=
MitB. If user copies URL belonging to other<br>
merchant, he would see the fact after entering it into his wallet<br>
application. The only problem is, attacker can buy from the same<br>
merchant with user's money. (sending him different URL) This can be<br>
mitigated by merchant setting "memo" to the description of the ba=
sket<br>
and some user info (e.g. address to which goods are sent).<br>
<br>
But if whole computer is compromised, you're already screwed. Trezor<br=
>
should help, but I'm not sure if it supports BIP70.<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
2015-02-01 14:49 GMT+02:00 Brian Erdelyi <<a href=3D"mailto:brian.erdely=
i@gmail.com">brian.erdelyi@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
><br>
> In online banking, the banks generate account numbers.=C2=A0 An attack=
er cannot<br>
> generate their own account number and the likelihood of an attacker ha=
ving<br>
> the same account number that I am trying to transfer funds to is low a=
nd<br>
> this is why OCRA is effective with online banking.<br>
><br>
> With Bitcoin, the Bitcoin address is comparable to the recipient=E2=80=
=99s bank<br>
> account number.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I now see how an an attacker can brute for=
ce the bitcoin<br>
> address with vanitygen.=C2=A0 Is there any way to generate an 8 digit =
number from<br>
> the bitcoin address that can be used to verify transactions in such a =
way<br>
> (possibly with hashing?) that brute forcing a bitcoin address would ta=
ke<br>
> longer than a reasonable period of time (say 60 seconds) so a system c=
ould<br>
> time out if a transaction was not completed in that time?<br>
><br>
> I=E2=80=99ve also looked into BIP70 (Payment Protocol) that claims pro=
tection<br>
> against man-in-the-middle/man-in-the-browser (MitB) based attacks.=C2=
=A0 A common<br>
> way to protect against this is with out-of-band transaction verificati=
on<br>
> (<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-in-the-browser#Out-of-ban=
d_transaction_verification" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/=
Man-in-the-browser#Out-of-band_transaction_verification</a>).<br>
> I see how BIP 70 verifies the payment request, however, is there any w=
ay to<br>
> verify that the transaction signed by the wallet matches the request b=
efore<br>
> it is sent to the blockchain (and how can this support out of band<br>
> verification)?=C2=A0 Perhaps this is something that can only be suppor=
ted when<br>
> sending money with web based wallets.<br>
><br>
> Brian Erdelyi<br>
><br>
</div></div>> ----------------------------------------------------------=
--------------------<br>
> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website,<=
br>
> sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, i=
s your<br>
> hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought<=
br>
> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Ta=
ke a<br>
> look and join the conversation now. <a href=3D"http://goparallel.sourc=
eforge.net/" target=3D"_blank">http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-d=
evelopment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-develo=
pment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitco=
in-development</a><br>
><br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website,<br>
sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is you=
r<br>
hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought<br>
leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a<=
br>
look and join the conversation now. <a href=3D"http://goparallel.sourceforg=
e.net/" target=3D"_blank">http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
--e89a8f647021f8af3f050e07114b--
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