1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
|
Return-Path: <cipher.anthem@gmx.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA577414
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:50:48 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81891143
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:50:47 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from [66.180.193.219] by 3capp-mailcom-bs02.server.lan (via HTTP);
Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:50:45 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <trinity-f82ce2cb-7260-4b58-a577-9a1b6afad214-1437670245144@3capp-mailcom-bs02>
From: "cipher anthem" <cipher.anthem@gmx.com>
To: gavinandresen@gmail.com
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:50:45 +0200
Importance: normal
Sensitivity: Normal
In-Reply-To: <CABsx9T1MTc-GmuQyFN1vaFK=CDWV_L214Pi9nR6jLMouQQD0fw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPg+sBgs-ouEMu=LOVCmOyCGwfM1Ygxooz0shyvAuHDGGZYfJw@mail.gmail.com>
<CAPg+sBgugLSVEwDLXhgey86_rM2fTjGWXFuXsiZioJKCZiHiNg@mail.gmail.com>
<CADm_WcbnQQGZoQ92twfUvbzqGwu__xLn+BYOkHPZY_YT1pFrbA@mail.gmail.com>
<CAPWm=eW8RgrG1CMEAMN4GeiMjZecFvNtZB_Y4rZNeofWSD0=Wg@mail.gmail.com>
<CADm_WcYCUHs9Qe_T6WJOCUSK6stXYD8v6z5JcGHfRMURoOSFTA@mail.gmail.com>
<CABm2gDq3JyZx0QCRDbcNSLSOBKdpi4h_7VN1XL8N42U38+eBAA@mail.gmail.com>
<55B113AF.40500@thinlink.com>,
<CABsx9T1MTc-GmuQyFN1vaFK=CDWV_L214Pi9nR6jLMouQQD0fw@mail.gmail.com>
X-UI-Message-Type: mail
X-Priority: 3
X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:3jOd9yJTXktaEQcRR7zHMTFD/6lP6tRoWBkVujKqJuo
P5dnL3Ve/XuFpnCRdT+EDpvQ/abfk2C59H1b5VmzTDhLuquh5h
Ks7Q+4r4aLJNuxC+1GPMGDUOK3WT25JvyvrWJtJmEWTZ8ijxRu
yAmIGXSOz1hU/Jm+5mNnsET2ylk7Op1k+5lyjUA0g4odJVr96B
cbzwr9EctW2ogm9FgGMaNqmG88cM+AVQYALN/P1UQ142Om3XLt
TGEtEVVuMlNJbHNfHVPDiRUk8oHJZTvcqZ2r/qdItpmrv8CxwE
iD+K7cO7mx0p8akpeiv+2Zz/VGR
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:B8qZx4vUUbk=:6c3SrksONfhpXA97R0Rh+1
iaR+RgrkJ4scG11MYhMbIhKTTKwlMwYIZiKVcbK/q3q3Ml72bgLBDO/Ur/izdQWkdTeDO3bn4
VxJ2L1ECSuTnvCv555q6A54OLelaLlkohmhtK36yyGtu0IpAYivP2gCRa4Oz5h0d/z5QWL57s
QNxPCCFb0Myp0lL7yZdi1YDZVJrK85jaMJEtulvE/04rV2Vp78jUC3oUJZsRwRF3woh/q2YmO
zlw0tlFExIpWRTdG59MKD8F2s57ovPNW8LfBhxPlzfizRtsvqK7YmlyNcfDU5gT5IxIMWTYQ7
X9o+jKvaK9ZB0Pr1a/4NzCwS9CYAW4xWWbhZAD5KlNaNdRD4gMPhjsomamu5Z65AcLuK4Siuf
0ZBNammn+L701xEASRTHm3n25h6kixv4t/bwRVKSQfnEzcecewokgr4L8gKHF7XXCTv6J0dNz
EvtfDiWnxA==
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM,
HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_HTML_ONLY,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=no version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Core and hard forks
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:50:48 -0000
<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><div>
<div>Why not help on a project that actually seems to offer great scalability like the lightning network? There have been great progress there.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Seems like you did your calculations some time ago to prove that your increase is reasonable, yet when others come with different numbers that don't support your position you say it doesn't matter.</div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding: 10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 4:28 PM<br/>
<b>From:</b> "Gavin Andresen via bitcoin-dev" <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org><br/>
<b>To:</b> "Tom Harding" <tomh@thinlink.com><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org<br/>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Core and hard forks</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev <span><<a href="bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target="_parent">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left: 1.0px rgb(204,204,204) solid;padding-left: 1.0ex;"><span>On 7/23/2015 5:17 AM, Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev wrote:</span><br/>
<span>> they will simply advance the front and start another battle, because<br/>
> their true hidden faction is the "not ever side". Please, Jeff, Gavin,<br/>
> Mike, show me that I'm wrong on this point. Please, answer my question</span><br/>
<span>> this time. If "not now", then when?</span><br/>
<br/>
Bitcoin has all the hash power. The merkle root has effectively<br/>
infinite capacity. We should be asking HOW to scale the supporting<br/>
information propagation system appropriately, not WHEN to limit the<br/>
capacity of the primary time-stamping machine.<br/>
<br/>
We haven't tried yet. I can't answer for the people you asked, but<br/>
personally I haven't thought much about when we should declare failure.</blockquote>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>Yes! Lets plan for success!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'd really like to move from "IMPOSSIBLE because... (electrum hasn't been optimized</div>
<div>(by the way: you should run on SSDs, LevelDB isn't designed for spinning disks),</div>
<div>what if the network is attacked? (attacked HOW???), current p2p network is using</div>
<div>the simplest, stupidest possible block propagation algorithm...)"</div>
<div> </div>
<div>... to "lets work together and work through the problems and scale it up."</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm frankly tired of all the negativity here; so tired of it I've decided to mostly ignore</div>
<div>all the debate for a while, not respond to misinformation I see being spread</div>
<div>(like "miners have some incentive to create slow-to-propagate blocks"),</div>
<div>work with people like Tom and Mike who have a 'lets get it done' attitude, and</div>
<div>focus on what it will take to scale up.</div>
<div> </div>
--
<div class="gmail_signature">--<br/>
Gavin Andresen</div>
<div class="gmail_signature"> </div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org <a href="https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></body></html>
|
