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boundary="00000000000059355a05de5f9a0e" +X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 06 May 2022 23:42:26 +0000 +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] What to do when contentious soft fork activations + are attempted +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 22:44:38 -0000 + +--00000000000059355a05de5f9a0e +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +So, to be clear, you didn't design speedy trial "to make everyone unhappy" +as Ryan claims, no? +That's a really strange claim on his part. +When the grace period for slower activation after lock in was added, I +don't think it was added to make me or people like me who dislike that +proposal unhappy. On the contrary, I think the goal was precisely to +address some of our concerns. +But it doesn't address them all, as I've tried to explain other times. +I truly think you wanted to make everyone happy with speedy trial, but you +didn't do it, sorry. +I know it' not a lack of capacity because you did impressive and genius +things like simplicity. +But despite your best intentions and your great capacity, I still think +speedy trial is a very bad proposal because you got the analysis wrong. +Let me reiterate that this is not attack against you, but only against one +of your ideas. +Sorry if I sounded sarcastic, but I was trying to be sarcastic with ryan, +not with you. + + +On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 8:24 PM Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev < +bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: + +> On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Jorge Tim=C3=B3n via bitcoin-dev < +> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: +> +>> +>> Russell O'Connor wrote the definitive explanation for how ST arose in +>>> the consensus process and how it was designed to make everyone +>>> unhappy. It's a great explanation of what we went through last year. +>>> +>>> https://r6.ca/blog/20210615T191422Z.html +>>> +>>> "On Building Consensus and Speedy Trial" +>>> +>>> on | 2021-06-15T19:14:22Z +>>> by | Russell O'Connor +>>> +>> +>> That's a lot of text, are you sure he said in there he designed speedy +>> trial to make everyone unhappy? +>> Well, if we're still talking about it, that proves that it failed at its +>> own design criterion of failing fast. +>> +> +> Quoting from https://r6.ca/blog/20210615T191422Z.html: +> +> > Speedy Trial=E2=80=99s design is not based on any sort of activation ph= +ilosophy +> about failing fast. +> _______________________________________________ +> bitcoin-dev mailing list +> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev +> + +--00000000000059355a05de5f9a0e +Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>So, to be clear, you didn't design speedy trial &= +quot;to make everyone unhappy" as Ryan claims, no?</div><div>That'= +s a really strange claim on his part.</div><div>When the grace period for s= +lower activation after lock in was added, I don't think it was added to= + make me or people like me who dislike that proposal unhappy. On the contra= +ry, I think the goal was precisely to address some of our concerns.</div><d= +iv>But it doesn't address them all, as I've tried to explain other = +times. <br></div><div>I truly think you wanted to make everyone happy with = +speedy trial, but you didn't do it, sorry.</div><div>I know it' not= + a lack of capacity because you did impressive and genius things like simpl= +icity.<br></div><div>But despite your best intentions and your great capaci= +ty, I still think speedy trial is a very bad proposal because you got the a= +nalysis wrong.<br></div><div>Let me reiterate that this is not attack again= +st you, but only against one of your ideas.</div><div>Sorry if I sounded sa= +rcastic, but I was trying to be sarcastic with ryan, not with you.</div><di= +v><br></div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" clas= +s=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 8:24 PM Russell O'Connor via bi= +tcoin-dev <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitc= +oin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class= +=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg= +b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote= +"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 2:01 PM Jorg= +e Tim=C3=B3n via bitcoin-dev <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxf= +oundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&= +gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0= +px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div = +dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquo= +te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px = +solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> +Russell O'Connor wrote the definitive explanation for how ST arose in<b= +r> +the consensus process and how it was designed to make everyone<br> +unhappy.=C2=A0 It's a great explanation of what we went through last ye= +ar.<br> +<br> +=C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://r6.ca/blog/20210615T191422Z.html" rel=3D"noreferr= +er" target=3D"_blank">https://r6.ca/blog/20210615T191422Z.html</a><br> +<br> +=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "On Building Consensus and Speedy Trial"<br> +<br> +=C2=A0 =C2=A0 on | 2021-06-15T19:14:22Z<br> +=C2=A0 =C2=A0 by | Russell O'Connor<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div= +>That's a lot of text, are you sure he said in there he designed speedy= + trial to make everyone unhappy?</div><div>Well, if we're still talking= + about it, that proves that it failed at its own design criterion of failin= +g fast.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Quoting from <a h= +ref=3D"https://r6.ca/blog/20210615T191422Z.html" target=3D"_blank">https://= +r6.ca/blog/20210615T191422Z.html</a>:</div><div><br></div><div>> Speedy = +Trial=E2=80=99s design is not based on any sort of activation philosophy ab= +out failing fast.=C2=A0 </div></div></div> +_______________________________________________<br> +bitcoin-dev mailing list<br> +<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">= +bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br> +<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" = +rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= +man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br> +</blockquote></div></div> + +--00000000000059355a05de5f9a0e-- + |