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authorJeremy Rubin <jeremy.l.rubin@gmail.com>2022-02-20 08:29:35 -0800
committerbitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>2022-02-20 16:29:49 +0000
commit17afaad661d479396bf10a39df5692193bbf62a9 (patch)
tree73bb3fbe118574566a076d46d08df4b8ca48d017 /ef
parent33c79a9ec54bfb3bcc62bd63bae42f181f0c2907 (diff)
downloadpi-bitcoindev-17afaad661d479396bf10a39df5692193bbf62a9.tar.gz
pi-bitcoindev-17afaad661d479396bf10a39df5692193bbf62a9.zip
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] [Pre-BIP] Fee Accounts
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+From: Jeremy Rubin <jeremy.l.rubin@gmail.com>
+Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 08:29:35 -0800
+Message-ID: <CAD5xwhjk+PtkbjvD9yEjP=tc44HEJp2hXeGMuV79K8ZS6nMssQ@mail.gmail.com>
+To: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com>
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000be7bc905d8759f3c"
+Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
+ lightning-dev <lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
+Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] [Pre-BIP] Fee Accounts
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+
+--000000000000be7bc905d8759f3c
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
+
+opt-in or explicit tagging of fee account is a bad design IMO.
+
+As pointed out by James O'Beirne in the other email, having an explicit key
+required means you have to pre-plan.... suppose you're building a vault
+meant to distribute funds over many years, do you really want a *specific*
+precommitted key you have to maintain? What happens to your ability to bump
+should it be compromised (which may be more likely if it's intended to be a
+hot-wallet function for bumping).
+
+Furthermore, it's quite often the case that someone might do a transaction
+that pays you that is low fee that you want to bump but they choose to
+opt-out... then what? It's better that you should always be able to fee
+bump.
+
+
+--
+@JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
+
+
+On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 6:24 AM ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> wrote:
+
+> Good morning DA,
+>
+>
+> > Agreed, you cannot rely on a replacement transaction would somehow
+> > invalidate a previous version of it, it has been spoken into the gossip
+> > and exists there in mempools somewhere if it does, there is no guarantee
+> > that anyone has ever heard of the replacement transaction as there is no
+> > consensus about either the previous version of the transaction or its
+> > replacement until one of them is mined and the block accepted. -DA.
+>
+> As I understand from the followup from Peter, the point is not "this
+> should never happen", rather the point is "this should not happen *more
+> often*."
+>
+> Regards,
+> ZmnSCPxj
+>
+
+--000000000000be7bc905d8759f3c
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
+lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
+lt">opt-in or explicit tagging of fee account is a bad design IMO.</div><di=
+v class=3D"gmail_default"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default">As pointed=
+ out by James O&#39;Beirne in the other email, having an explicit key requi=
+red means you have to pre-plan.... suppose you&#39;re building a vault mean=
+t to distribute funds over many years, do you really want a *specific* prec=
+ommitted=C2=A0key you have to maintain? What happens to your ability to bum=
+p should it be compromised (which may be more likely if it&#39;s intended t=
+o be a hot-wallet function for bumping).</div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=
+<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default">Furthermore, it&#39;s quite often th=
+e case that someone might do a transaction that pays you that is low fee th=
+at you want to bump but they choose to opt-out... then what? It&#39;s bette=
+r that you should always be able to fee bump.</div><div><div dir=3D"ltr" st=
+yle=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"></div></=
+div><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br clear=3D"all"><=
+div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_sign=
+ature"><div dir=3D"ltr">--<br><a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin" t=
+arget=3D"_blank">@JeremyRubin</a><br></div></div></div><br></div><br><div c=
+lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 20, =
+2022 at 6:24 AM ZmnSCPxj &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com">Zmn=
+SCPxj@protonmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
+te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-sty=
+le:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Good morning =
+DA,<br>
+<br>
+<br>
+&gt; Agreed, you cannot rely on a replacement transaction would somehow<br>
+&gt; invalidate a previous version of it, it has been spoken into the gossi=
+p<br>
+&gt; and exists there in mempools somewhere if it does, there is no guarant=
+ee<br>
+&gt; that anyone has ever heard of the replacement transaction as there is =
+no<br>
+&gt; consensus about either the previous version of the transaction or its<=
+br>
+&gt; replacement until one of them is mined and the block accepted. -DA.<br=
+>
+<br>
+As I understand from the followup from Peter, the point is not &quot;this s=
+hould never happen&quot;, rather the point is &quot;this should not happen =
+*more often*.&quot;<br>
+<br>
+Regards,<br>
+ZmnSCPxj<br>
+</blockquote></div>
+
+--000000000000be7bc905d8759f3c--
+