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| author | Pindar Wong <pindar.wong@gmail.com> | 2015-06-03 12:18:22 +0800 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2015-06-03 04:18:30 +0000 |
| commit | fed603c01056c9452d33328d15a650d92b1d98f2 (patch) | |
| tree | e5e85ca833c0610dd88c08e5313d0a0568945cc9 | |
| parent | 5677e8669de93332a3b3ec9f45924a218e58e156 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-fed603c01056c9452d33328d15a650d92b1d98f2.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-fed603c01056c9452d33328d15a650d92b1d98f2.zip | |
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Max Block Size: Simple Voting Procedure
| -rw-r--r-- | 1a/29ff3814a0ec6b60a6f402b66bdd5eb08393a7 | 231 |
1 files changed, 231 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/1a/29ff3814a0ec6b60a6f402b66bdd5eb08393a7 b/1a/29ff3814a0ec6b60a6f402b66bdd5eb08393a7 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..10a7757a0 --- /dev/null +++ b/1a/29ff3814a0ec6b60a6f402b66bdd5eb08393a7 @@ -0,0 +1,231 @@ +Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] + helo=mx.sourceforge.net) + by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) + (envelope-from <pindar.wong@gmail.com>) id 1Z008M-0003Hb-AG + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Wed, 03 Jun 2015 04:18:30 +0000 +Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com + designates 209.85.212.170 as permitted sender) + client-ip=209.85.212.170; envelope-from=pindar.wong@gmail.com; + helo=mail-wi0-f170.google.com; +Received: from mail-wi0-f170.google.com ([209.85.212.170]) + by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) + (Exim 4.76) id 1Z008K-0006Om-Rt + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Wed, 03 Jun 2015 04:18:30 +0000 +Received: by wibut5 with SMTP id ut5so88768277wib.1 + for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>; + Tue, 02 Jun 2015 21:18:22 -0700 (PDT) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +X-Received: by 10.180.86.73 with SMTP id n9mr36499073wiz.78.1433305102831; + Tue, 02 Jun 2015 21:18:22 -0700 (PDT) +Received: by 10.194.156.226 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Jun 2015 21:18:22 -0700 (PDT) +In-Reply-To: <CABHVRKS5Mnp9vSJ6mZwNroY7jbBJx+4d+m4hVpWONisaMvBNUw@mail.gmail.com> +References: <CABHVRKSFV_dXZeLnhBLfRK=wrBFsRH5kFBZqwECh-LyCkwrmtQ@mail.gmail.com> + <CAM7BtUod0hyteqx-yj8XMwATYp73Shi0pvdcTrW0buseLGc_ZQ@mail.gmail.com> + <CABHVRKT7H1p67Bz_T_caaGFnfuswnC+kXKGdkpRhtXUZQv3HtQ@mail.gmail.com> + <CAM7BtUrN9D__ha63Qfs2Fi4HSUFWb8BArHni9yFKRSdLSxCNnA@mail.gmail.com> + <CABHVRKS5Mnp9vSJ6mZwNroY7jbBJx+4d+m4hVpWONisaMvBNUw@mail.gmail.com> +Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 12:18:22 +0800 +Message-ID: <CAM7BtUofDnj6mJJ=zg3DxDC9TESJsjoOebRYfoAXmh0mew3J0w@mail.gmail.com> +From: Pindar Wong <pindar.wong@gmail.com> +To: Stephen Morse <stephencalebmorse@gmail.com> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0442806e8256a00517955950 +X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) +X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. + See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. + -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for + sender-domain + 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider + (pindar.wong[at]gmail.com) + -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record + 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message + -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from + author's domain + 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, + not necessarily valid + -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature +X-Headers-End: 1Z008K-0006Om-Rt +Cc: bitcoin-development <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Max Block Size: Simple Voting Procedure +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 +Precedence: list +List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2015 04:18:30 -0000 + +--f46d0442806e8256a00517955950 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 + +On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Stephen Morse <stephencalebmorse@gmail.com> +wrote: + +> Pindar, +> +> yes and it's a good idea to separate the hard/soft fork upgrades. The +>> point being here is that we're also establishing a process for the +>> community to self-determine the way forward in a transparent and verifiable +>> manner. +>> +>> What's not to like? :) +>> +>> I'll probably have some time on Sunday to help hack something up but I +>> don't think this is that heavy a coding lift? What am I missing? +>> +> +> As Matt mentioned, many members of the bitcoin community would be hesitant +> about giving miners this much power. +> + +I understand this concern and it's a valid one, including other dimensions +such as better decentralization. Some might argue that the mining pools in +China currently have such power and that's a bad thing:- + +https://blockchain.info/pools + +I happen to think that it's unhealthy for the network but the irony is +that they are huge bitcoin fanbase that perhaps should be involved in this, +and other, decisions. The question is how. + +Thus far our friends from f2pool have chimed in with some data from their +perspective. It would be interesting to hear from the others and I'm +finding ways to do exactly that. + +So let's find a way to involve, and not alienate them or others. Let's find +a way to get more data and test assumptions and boundaries. + + +It essentially lets them vote to change the rules of the system. +> + +It's data and yes, it gives then a very visible, verifiable 'vote' ... +though I prefer to think of this as 'voice' as in a ' hummmm. ' + +But miners are not the only part of this ecosystem, and they are not the +> only ones affected by the choice of block size limit, so they probably +> shouldn't be the only ones with a vote. +> + +I fully agree and it doesn't have to be the only voice ... think 'choir' +... after all this is an ecosystem with each party playing their +respective roles. But sustainable ecosystems have 'keystone' species, and I +believe these to be the 'honest' miners that help secure the network. + +Instead, we vote with the software we run, and all upgrade. +> + +or not as the case may be. I think we're trying to find a level of rough +consensus where members of the community feel comfortable enough to do this +upgrade in their respective codebase. + + +> +> So, while I think an idea like this has its merits, I would bet that it's +> fairly unlikely to get enough support to be merged into bitcoin core. +> + +Bitcoin was 'unlikely' ... yet it happened. + +Nevertheless you raise the possibility of a different possible path forward +and that's positive. So thank you for doing that! + +Bitcoin's humming in China, behind an GFW ... who could have guessed? + +'Connect and Liberate' :) + +p. + + +> +> Best, +> Stephen +> +> + +--f46d0442806e8256a00517955950 +Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo= +te">On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Stephen Morse <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a= + href=3D"mailto:stephencalebmorse@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">stephencaleb= +morse@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" = +style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa= +dding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Pindar,<div><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"= +><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo= +te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204= +);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class= +=3D"gmail_quote"><div>yes and it's a good idea to separate the hard/sof= +t fork upgrades. The point being here is that we're also establishing a= + process for the community to self-determine the way forward in a transpare= +nt and verifiable manner.=C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div><div>What's not= + to like? :)<br><br></div><div>I'll probably have some time on Sunday t= +o help hack something up but I don't think this is that heavy a coding = +lift? What am I missing?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div= +></span><div>As Matt mentioned, many members of the bitcoin community would= + be hesitant about giving miners this much power. </div></div></div></div><= +/div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I understand this concern and it'= +s a valid one, including other dimensions such as better decentralization. = +Some might argue that the mining pools in China currently have such power a= +nd that's a bad thing:-<br><br><a href=3D"https://blockchain.info/pools= +">https://blockchain.info/pools</a><br></div><div><br>I happen to think=C2= +=A0 that it's unhealthy for the network but the irony is that they are = +huge bitcoin fanbase that perhaps should be involved in this, and other,=C2= +=A0 decisions. The question is how.=C2=A0 <br><br>Thus far our friends from= + f2pool have chimed in with some data from their perspective. It would be i= +nteresting to hear from the others and I'm finding ways to do exactly t= +hat. <br><br>So let's find a way to involve, and not alienate them or o= +thers. Let's find a way to get more data and test assumptions and bound= +aries. <br><br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:= +0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">= +<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"= +><div>It essentially lets them vote to change the rules of the system. </di= +v></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It's data an= +d yes, it gives then a very visible, verifiable 'vote' ... though I= + prefer to think of this as 'voice'=C2=A0 as in a ' hummmm. = +9;=C2=A0 <br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p= +x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><d= +iv dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><= +div>But miners are not the only part of this ecosystem, and they are not th= +e only ones affected by the choice of block size limit, so they probably sh= +ouldn't be the only ones with a vote.</div></div></div></div></div></bl= +ockquote><div><br></div><div>I fully agree and it doesn't have to be th= +e only voice ...=C2=A0 think 'choir' ...=C2=A0 after all this is an= + ecosystem with each party playing their respective roles. But sustainable = +ecosystems have 'keystone' species, and I believe these to be the &= +#39;honest' miners that help secure the network. <br><br></div><blockqu= +ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px= + solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class= +=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div> Instead, we vote with the= + software we run, and all upgrade.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquot= +e><div><br></div><div>or not as the case may be.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I think we'= +;re trying to find a level of rough consensus where members of the communit= +y feel comfortable enough to do this upgrade in their respective codebase. = +<br>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0= +px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div = +dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div= +><br></div><div>So, while I think an idea like this has its merits, I would= + bet that it's fairly unlikely to get enough support to be merged into = +bitcoin core.=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></di= +v><div>Bitcoin was 'unlikely' ...=C2=A0 yet it happened.<br><br></d= +iv><div>Nevertheless you raise the possibility of a different possible path= + forward and that's positive. So thank you for doing that!=C2=A0 <br><b= +r>Bitcoin's humming in China, behind an GFW ... who could have guessed?= + <br><br></div><div>'Connect and Liberate' :)<br><br></div><div>p.<= +br>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p= +x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div d= +ir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>= +<br></div><div>Best,<br>Stephen</div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div= +> +</blockquote></div><br></div></div> + +--f46d0442806e8256a00517955950-- + + |