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authorSjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>2025-06-03 19:51:46 +0200
committerbitcoindev <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>2025-06-03 11:30:22 -0700
commitf8a3d07588980df17a1a41d38ba99dfbaddc8228 (patch)
treec5d8a96b3c56214890842f50e84e5a25c8ae3b24
parent64872ea9ba39daaa2791d1d852aacacccd9f4f9b (diff)
downloadpi-bitcoindev-f8a3d07588980df17a1a41d38ba99dfbaddc8228.tar.gz
pi-bitcoindev-f8a3d07588980df17a1a41d38ba99dfbaddc8228.zip
Re: [bitcoindev] Censorship Resistant Transaction Relay - Taking out the garbage(man)
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+Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Censorship Resistant Transaction Relay - Taking out
+ the garbage(man)
+From: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>
+In-Reply-To: <aD8z34hk6IQ21cSv@petertodd.org>
+Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2025 19:51:46 +0200
+Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+Message-Id: <CC0C1719-662E-4571-97EE-4DC504CC4360@sprovoost.nl>
+References: <aDWfDI03I-Rakopb@petertodd.org>
+ <CAHTn92zkmfw2KwZCTRyGhnYPASWBUoLaxV65ASYpPeBUpX1SWw@mail.gmail.com>
+ <CAAANnUwHcd1w6phwyfDKebzEabAtm=A3i2qkLDpJ9L47q75T9Q@mail.gmail.com>
+ <4BA2B86E-3E4B-416B-9237-AFD66FC4E37A@sprovoost.nl>
+ <aD8z34hk6IQ21cSv@petertodd.org>
+To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
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+
+They can broadcast an expensive signal, i.e. make a statement, with a singl=
+e block even if nobody builds on it.
+
+More cheaply, and perhaps more effective, they could publish a feed of weak=
+ blocks on their social media, containing the hash of each rejected block i=
+n a coinbase OP_RETURN. They could mine this block for just a few seconds o=
+r minutes, before resuming to mine on the tip.
+
+Even a low success rate could serve as a deterrent to other miners against =
+including "bad" transactions. Rationally the attack would have to cost abou=
+t as much as the extra revenue from censored fees, but risk aversion would =
+probably leverage to this strategy.
+
+Of course I'd rather not go down this path.
+
+- Sjors=20
+
+> Op 3 jun 2025, om 19:41 heeft Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> het volgend=
+e geschreven:
+>=20
+> On Tue, Jun 03, 2025 at 08:50:34AM +0200, Sjors Provoost wrote:
+>> Or people can just spin up more Libre Relay nodes. Both miners and issue=
+rs of various scam tokens have a monetary incentive to do that. Whereas pro=
+ponents of filters are (so far) not willing to invest serious money. E.g. w=
+hen I challenged Luke Dashjr in an earlier post to reorg a single block wit=
+h spam, he didn't respond [1]. Worse, Ocean proactively offers "Core" [0] t=
+emplates. Although running a node is cheap, if this becomes an arms race, t=
+he side that actually spends money has the advantage.
+>=20
+> I need to point out that you're being unfair to Ocean here: with their <1=
+% hash
+> power it's damn near impossible for them to reorg blocks. The reason is b=
+ecause
+> if there are two blocks at the same height, Bitcoin Core accepts the firs=
+t
+> block seen.
+>=20
+> Thus if Ocean wants to reorg a "spam" block out, they need to find not ju=
+st
+> one, but two blocks in a row before any other miner finds one. The probab=
+ility
+> of that happening is (very) roughly 1% * 1% =3D 0.01% per attempt. Given =
+that
+> blocks are worth ~$300k these days, you're asking them to spend tens of
+> millions of dollars worth of hash power just to reorg out a single block.
+>=20
+> It's not going to happen.
+>=20
+> --=20
+> https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
+
+--=20
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+CC0C1719-662E-4571-97EE-4DC504CC4360%40sprovoost.nl.
+
generated by cgit v1.2.3 (git 2.39.1) at 2025-07-26 00:03:01 +0000