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| author | Anthony Towns <aj@erisian.com.au> | 2023-11-08 13:56:17 +1000 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2023-11-08 03:56:28 +0000 |
| commit | f4f7ffb4d6976c3a75390d2830ce6a928f6cf968 (patch) | |
| tree | 0ea711d03affc1ac7507f9522bc899c6f2215cde | |
| parent | 5eb66906b89acd29b23289dfd040439c6e2c882a (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-f4f7ffb4d6976c3a75390d2830ce6a928f6cf968.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-f4f7ffb4d6976c3a75390d2830ce6a928f6cf968.zip | |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Future of the bitcoin-dev mailing list
| -rw-r--r-- | 83/c7c15f62183a0c5ce35b24fdc7465bf0e044c2 | 155 |
1 files changed, 155 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/83/c7c15f62183a0c5ce35b24fdc7465bf0e044c2 b/83/c7c15f62183a0c5ce35b24fdc7465bf0e044c2 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5f5691dbb --- /dev/null +++ b/83/c7c15f62183a0c5ce35b24fdc7465bf0e044c2 @@ -0,0 +1,155 @@ +Return-Path: <aj@erisian.com.au> +Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) + by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29EBC0032 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Wed, 8 Nov 2023 03:56:28 +0000 (UTC) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D5E960EE2 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Wed, 8 Nov 2023 03:56:28 +0000 (UTC) +DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 8D5E960EE2 +X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org +X-Spam-Flag: NO +X-Spam-Score: -1.902 +X-Spam-Level: +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 + tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] + autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no +Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) + by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) + with ESMTP id HqsGLzElJjUk + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Wed, 8 Nov 2023 03:56:27 +0000 (UTC) +Received: from cerulean.erisian.com.au (azure.erisian.com.au [172.104.61.193]) + by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2367560E39 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Wed, 8 Nov 2023 03:56:27 +0000 (UTC) +DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 2367560E39 +Received: from aj@azure.erisian.com.au + by cerulean.erisian.com.au with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls + TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) + (envelope-from <aj@erisian.com.au>) id 1r0Zfx-0000NZ-5M + for bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2023 13:56:23 +1000 +Received: by email (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 08 Nov 2023 13:56:17 +1000 +Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2023 13:56:17 +1000 +From: Anthony Towns <aj@erisian.com.au> +To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Message-ID: <ZUsG4fxgrdCIulef@erisian.com.au> +References: <CABaSBaz9OTSVa1KNk0GOrH3T-kRF_7OPVu0AtpuaFGVB=zhdwQ@mail.gmail.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <CABaSBaz9OTSVa1KNk0GOrH3T-kRF_7OPVu0AtpuaFGVB=zhdwQ@mail.gmail.com> +X-Spam_score: -0.0 +X-Spam_bar: / +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Future of the bitcoin-dev mailing list +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2023 03:56:28 -0000 + +On Tue, Nov 07, 2023 at 09:37:22AM -0600, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev wrote: +> Web forums are an interesting option, but often don't have good email user +> integration. + +> What about bitcointalk.org or delvingbitcoin.org? + +delvingbitcoin.org is something I setup; it's a self-hosted discourse +instance. (You don't have to self-host discourse, but not doing so limits +the number of admins/moderators, the plugins you can use, and the APIs you +can access) + +For what it's worth, I think (discourse) forums have significant +advantages over email for technical discussion: + + * much better markup: you can write LaTeX for doing maths, you + can have graphviz or mermaid diagrams generated directly from text, + you can do formatting without having to worry about HTML email. + because that's done direct from markup, you can also quote such + things in replies, or easily create a modified equation/diagram + if desired, things that are much harder if equations/diagrams are + image/pdf attachments. + + * consistent threading/quoting: you don't have to rely on email clients + to get threading/quoting correct in order to link replies with the + original message + + * having topics/replies, rather than everything being an individual + email, tends to make it easier to avoid being distracted by followups + to a topic you're not interested in. + + * you can do reactions (heart / thumbs up / etc) instead of "me too" + posts, minimising the impact of low-content responses on readers, + without doing away with those responses entirely. + + * after the fact moderation: with mailing lists, moderation can only + be a choice between "send this post to every subscriber" or not, + and the choice obviously has to be made before anyone sees the posts; + forums allow off-topic/unconstructive posts to be removed or edited. + +Compared to mailing-lists-as-a-service, a self-hosted forum has a few +other possible benefits: + + * it's easier to setup areas for additional topics, without worrying + you're going to be forced into an arbitrarily higher pricing tier + + * you can setup spaces for private working groups. (and those groups can + make their internal discussions public after the fact, if desired) + + * you can use plugin interfaces/APIs to link up with external resources + +There are a few disadvantages too: + + * discourse isn't lightweight -- you need a whole bunch of infrastructure + to go from the markdown posts to the actual rendered posts/comments; + so backups of just the markdown text isn't really "complete" + + * discourse is quite actively developed -- so it could be possible + that posts that use particular features/plugins (eg to generate + diagrams) will go stale eventually as the software changes, and stop + being rendered correctly + + * discourse gathers a moderate amount of non-public/potentially private + data (eg email addresses, passwords, IP addresses, login times) that + may make backups and admin access sensitive (which is why there's a + git archive generated by a bot for delvingbitcoin, rather than raw + database dumps) + +There are quite a few open source projects using discourse instances, eg: + + Python: https://discuss.python.org/ + Ruby on Rails: https://discuss.rubyonrails.org/ + LLVM: https://discourse.llvm.org/ + Jupyter: https://discourse.jupyter.org/ + Fedora: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ + Ubuntu: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/ + Haskell: https://discourse.haskell.org/ + +There's also various crypto projects using it: + + Eth research: https://ethresear.ch/ + Chia: https://developers.chia.net/ + +There's a couple of LWN articles on Python's adoption of discourse +that I found interesting, fwiw: + + https://lwn.net/Articles/901744/ [2022-07-20] + https://lwn.net/Articles/674271/ [2016-02-03] + +I don't think this needs to be an "either-or" question -- better to +have technical discussions about bitcoin in many places and in many +formats, rather than just one -- but I thought I'd take the opportunity +to write out why I thought discourse was worth spending some time on in +this context. + +Cheers, +aj + |