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authorDave Scotese <dscotese@litmocracy.com>2015-12-16 22:12:41 -0800
committerbitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>2015-12-17 06:12:43 +0000
commitd88f61914276e01e49c7da4d7085d7dbf1f9aa44 (patch)
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parentc41225c3878b4cfe8cac2852c55587c0bcaf2de8 (diff)
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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size: It's economics & user preparation & moral hazard
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+From: Dave Scotese <dscotese@litmocracy.com>
+To: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@gmail.com>
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+Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size: It's economics & user preparation &
+ moral hazard
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+
+On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Pieter Wuille via bitcoin-dev <
+bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
+> I indeed think we can communicate much better that deciding consensus
+> rules is not within our power.
+
+I'm not a core dev, so maybe I have the power to change the consensus
+rules. No one has that power, actually, at least not legitimately. All we
+can do is build it and hope enough people find it acceptable to adopt. Who
+doesn't want to hard fork to 2MB blocks on May 5th and why not?
+
+I have a bitcoin to be split up among all those who suffer from a May 5,
+2016 hardfork to 2MB blocks if they can prove it to me, or prove it to
+enough engineers that I succumb to peer pressure. I would have to respect
+the engineers though.
+
+There!
+
+Now that we've agreed to have a hard fork on May 5th, 2016, we might decide
+to implement some other methods of avoiding the FFM, like braiding the
+blockchain or flexcap, or just let anyone mining on top of a block make one
+that is a five or ten Kb larger.
+
+notplato
+
+On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev <
+bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
+
+> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 1:36 PM, jl2012 <jl2012@xbt.hk> wrote:
+>
+>> 4. In the miners round table on the second day, one of the devs mentioned
+>> that he didn't want to be seen as the decision maker of Bitcoin. On the
+>> other hand, Chinese miners repeatedly mentioned that they want several
+>> concrete proposals from devs which they could choose. I see no
+>> contradiction between these 2 viewpoints.
+>>
+>
+> This was a very interesting dynamic, and seems fair (menu).
+>
+>
+>
+>> 6. I believe we should avoid a radical "Economic Change Event" at least
+>> in the next halving cycle, as Bitcoin was designed to bootstrap the
+>> adoption by high mining reward in the beginning. For this reason, I support
+>> an early and conservative increase, such as BIP102 or 2-4-8. 2MB is
+>> accepted by most people and it's better than nothing for BIP101 proponents.
+>> By "early" I mean to be effective by May, at least 2 months before the
+>> halving.
+>>
+>
+> That was precisely my logic for picking May 5 as the hard fork date. Some
+> buffer before halving, enough for caution and iteration in the meantime.
+>
+>
+>
+>
+>
+>
+>>
+>> (c) My most optimistic guess is SW will be ready in 6 months, which will
+>> be very close to halving and potential tx volume burst. And it may not be
+>> done in 2016, as it does not only involve consensus code, but also change
+>> in the p2p protocol and wallet design
+>>
+>
+> Not just wallet design -- you have to game through the standard steps of:
+> update dev lib (bitcoin-core.js/bitcoinj) + release cycle, update app +
+> release cycle, for most actors in the ecosystem, on top of the Bitcoin Core
+> roll out.
+>
+>
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> bitcoin-dev mailing list
+> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
+> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
+>
+>
+
+
+--
+I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my value. Do you need a
+techie?
+I own Litmocracy <http://www.litmocracy.com> and Meme Racing
+<http://www.memeracing.net> (in alpha).
+I'm the webmaster for The Voluntaryist <http://www.voluntaryist.com> which
+now accepts Bitcoin.
+I also code for The Dollar Vigilante <http://dollarvigilante.com/>.
+"He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules" - Satoshi
+Nakamoto
+
+--001a11330c941371e6052711e968
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Pieter Wui=
+lle via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lis=
+ts.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation=
+.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>&gt; I indeed think we can communicate much b=
+etter that deciding consensus<br>&gt; rules is not within our power.<br><br=
+>I&#39;m not a core dev, so maybe I have the power to change the consensus =
+rules.=C2=A0 No one has that power, actually, at least not legitimately.=C2=
+=A0 All we can do is build it and hope enough people find it acceptable to =
+adopt.=C2=A0 Who doesn&#39;t want to hard fork to 2MB blocks on May 5th and=
+ why not?<br><br></div>I have a bitcoin to be split up among all those who =
+suffer from a May 5, 2016 hardfork to 2MB blocks if they can prove it to me=
+, or prove it to enough engineers that I succumb to peer pressure.=C2=A0 I =
+would have to respect the engineers though.<br><br></div>There!<br><br></di=
+v>Now that we&#39;ve agreed to have a hard fork on May 5th, 2016, we might =
+decide to implement some other methods of avoiding the FFM, like braiding t=
+he blockchain or flexcap, or just let anyone mining on top of a block make =
+one that is a five or ten Kb larger.<br><div><div><br></div><div>notplato<b=
+r></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
+e">On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev <span dir=
+=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" targe=
+t=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
+><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
+px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"">On Wed, D=
+ec 16, 2015 at 1:36 PM, jl2012 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jl20=
+12@xbt.hk" target=3D"_blank">jl2012@xbt.hk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br></span>=
+<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D""><blo=
+ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
+cc solid;padding-left:1ex">4. In the miners round table on the second day, =
+one of the devs mentioned that he didn&#39;t want to be seen as the decisio=
+n maker of Bitcoin. On the other hand, Chinese miners repeatedly mentioned =
+that they want several concrete proposals from devs which they could choose=
+. I see no contradiction between these 2 viewpoints.<br></blockquote><div><=
+br></div></span><div>This was a very interesting dynamic, and seems fair (m=
+enu).</div><span class=3D""><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote cla=
+ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
+dding-left:1ex">6. I believe we should avoid a radical &quot;Economic Chang=
+e Event&quot; at least in the next halving cycle, as Bitcoin was designed t=
+o bootstrap the adoption by high mining reward in the beginning. For this r=
+eason, I support an early and conservative increase, such as BIP102 or 2-4-=
+8. 2MB is accepted by most people and it&#39;s better than nothing for BIP1=
+01 proponents. By &quot;early&quot; I mean to be effective by May, at least=
+ 2 months before the halving.<br></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Th=
+at was precisely my logic for picking May 5 as the hard fork date.=C2=A0 So=
+me buffer before halving, enough for caution and iteration in the meantime.=
+</div><span class=3D""><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><b=
+r></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
+0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
+<br>(c) My most optimistic guess is SW will be ready in 6 months, which wil=
+l be very close to halving and potential tx volume burst. And it may not be=
+ done in 2016, as it does not only involve consensus code, but also change =
+in the p2p protocol and wallet design<br></blockquote><div><br></div></span=
+><div>Not just wallet design -- you have to game through the standard steps=
+ of: =C2=A0update dev lib (bitcoin-core.js/bitcoinj) + release cycle, updat=
+e app + release cycle, for most actors in the ecosystem, on top of the Bitc=
+oin Core roll out.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>=
+</div></div>
+<br>_______________________________________________<br>
+bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
+<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
+linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
+<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
+rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
+man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
+<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail=
+_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">I like to provide some work at no charge to pr=
+ove my value. Do you need a techie?=C2=A0 <br>I own <a href=3D"http://www.l=
+itmocracy.com" target=3D"_blank">Litmocracy</a> and <a href=3D"http://www.m=
+emeracing.net" target=3D"_blank">Meme Racing</a> (in alpha). <br>I&#39;m th=
+e webmaster for <a href=3D"http://www.voluntaryist.com" target=3D"_blank">T=
+he Voluntaryist</a> which now accepts Bitcoin.<br>I also code for <a href=
+=3D"http://dollarvigilante.com/" target=3D"_blank">The Dollar Vigilante</a>=
+.<br>&quot;He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules&quot; -=
+ Satoshi Nakamoto</div></div>
+</div>
+
+--001a11330c941371e6052711e968--
+