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author | Dave Scotese <dscotese@litmocracy.com> | 2015-12-16 22:12:41 -0800 |
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committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2015-12-17 06:12:43 +0000 |
commit | d88f61914276e01e49c7da4d7085d7dbf1f9aa44 (patch) | |
tree | 29925a94654c2c79274ffcbc1ffc2e4c093c2086 | |
parent | c41225c3878b4cfe8cac2852c55587c0bcaf2de8 (diff) | |
download | pi-bitcoindev-d88f61914276e01e49c7da4d7085d7dbf1f9aa44.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-d88f61914276e01e49c7da4d7085d7dbf1f9aa44.zip |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size: It's economics & user preparation & moral hazard
-rw-r--r-- | 07/47720b190a9fa5a684755a0ecc97d477162c64 | 236 |
1 files changed, 236 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/07/47720b190a9fa5a684755a0ecc97d477162c64 b/07/47720b190a9fa5a684755a0ecc97d477162c64 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..215b82e1a --- /dev/null +++ b/07/47720b190a9fa5a684755a0ecc97d477162c64 @@ -0,0 +1,236 @@ +Return-Path: <dscotese@gmail.com> +Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org + [172.17.192.35]) + by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B77F6E8D + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Thu, 17 Dec 2015 06:12:43 +0000 (UTC) +X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 +Received: from mail-ob0-f171.google.com (mail-ob0-f171.google.com + [209.85.214.171]) + by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 944A8187 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Thu, 17 Dec 2015 06:12:42 +0000 (UTC) +Received: by mail-ob0-f171.google.com with SMTP id no2so49883237obc.3 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Wed, 16 Dec 2015 22:12:42 -0800 (PST) +DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; + h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject + :from:to:cc:content-type; + bh=yyl/4NTguv6f2WGtS1tCSmt6pKQElBW9ybBLcmK6rqE=; + b=zDBsCQ4TWtMzc3ozraacULpIKIRb8b8tjmr/mtfIMQAlwAiW88uXRAZgzRJxe5yjYh + ElyTAQL90ezoaMLuna69ncqsQbsDxs9S6BcUqNO3XEEfpHTc+W17hAytQ3yiNP6vDOsU + BDGSH6ilvR3okyxy8NvaUKVJJUnbTzmTZdGSOSbmCkU73nCQQo0I105WFwUdsCzNjWv+ + sx+bTOvn23YhgKd+ybByl9tJdG5BkSshsgEBZPmOm0uRiz0bAMd3VYWnSXlFVl7eZQfi + EEwJRIPHX4XmhSosqR4u9nT90ePWEz6XObpLtm6pn0Canlmznljv9Tuxlq6h7ItXyelG + QGwg== +MIME-Version: 1.0 +X-Received: by 10.60.43.170 with SMTP id x10mr39470730oel.68.1450332761840; + Wed, 16 Dec 2015 22:12:41 -0800 (PST) +Sender: dscotese@gmail.com +Received: by 10.60.135.101 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Dec 2015 22:12:41 -0800 (PST) +In-Reply-To: <CADm_Wca9zTdTc2gvTxrWkFjfA49KhbU_=uNXh_mZ+QYXGZ6wWg@mail.gmail.com> +References: <CADm_WcasDuBsop55ZWcTb2FvccaoREg8K032rUjgQUQhQ3g=XA@mail.gmail.com> + <9a02d94fbc78afaa3e9668e0294eef64@xbt.hk> + <CADm_Wca9zTdTc2gvTxrWkFjfA49KhbU_=uNXh_mZ+QYXGZ6wWg@mail.gmail.com> +Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 22:12:41 -0800 +X-Google-Sender-Auth: Tv9FyjoMK9vYjJAfLZuJ8PmNP3g +Message-ID: <CAGLBAhfWS4089mcN8FmFcu19r9EwyBMS=TO_2ak3g28UHNXnvg@mail.gmail.com> +From: Dave Scotese <dscotese@litmocracy.com> +To: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@gmail.com> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11330c941371e6052711e968 +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, + DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham + version=3.3.1 +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on + smtp1.linux-foundation.org +Cc: Bitcoin development mailing list <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size: It's economics & user preparation & + moral hazard +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 06:12:43 -0000 + +--001a11330c941371e6052711e968 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 + +On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Pieter Wuille via bitcoin-dev < +bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: +> I indeed think we can communicate much better that deciding consensus +> rules is not within our power. + +I'm not a core dev, so maybe I have the power to change the consensus +rules. No one has that power, actually, at least not legitimately. All we +can do is build it and hope enough people find it acceptable to adopt. Who +doesn't want to hard fork to 2MB blocks on May 5th and why not? + +I have a bitcoin to be split up among all those who suffer from a May 5, +2016 hardfork to 2MB blocks if they can prove it to me, or prove it to +enough engineers that I succumb to peer pressure. I would have to respect +the engineers though. + +There! + +Now that we've agreed to have a hard fork on May 5th, 2016, we might decide +to implement some other methods of avoiding the FFM, like braiding the +blockchain or flexcap, or just let anyone mining on top of a block make one +that is a five or ten Kb larger. + +notplato + +On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev < +bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: + +> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 1:36 PM, jl2012 <jl2012@xbt.hk> wrote: +> +>> 4. In the miners round table on the second day, one of the devs mentioned +>> that he didn't want to be seen as the decision maker of Bitcoin. On the +>> other hand, Chinese miners repeatedly mentioned that they want several +>> concrete proposals from devs which they could choose. I see no +>> contradiction between these 2 viewpoints. +>> +> +> This was a very interesting dynamic, and seems fair (menu). +> +> +> +>> 6. I believe we should avoid a radical "Economic Change Event" at least +>> in the next halving cycle, as Bitcoin was designed to bootstrap the +>> adoption by high mining reward in the beginning. For this reason, I support +>> an early and conservative increase, such as BIP102 or 2-4-8. 2MB is +>> accepted by most people and it's better than nothing for BIP101 proponents. +>> By "early" I mean to be effective by May, at least 2 months before the +>> halving. +>> +> +> That was precisely my logic for picking May 5 as the hard fork date. Some +> buffer before halving, enough for caution and iteration in the meantime. +> +> +> +> +> +> +>> +>> (c) My most optimistic guess is SW will be ready in 6 months, which will +>> be very close to halving and potential tx volume burst. And it may not be +>> done in 2016, as it does not only involve consensus code, but also change +>> in the p2p protocol and wallet design +>> +> +> Not just wallet design -- you have to game through the standard steps of: +> update dev lib (bitcoin-core.js/bitcoinj) + release cycle, update app + +> release cycle, for most actors in the ecosystem, on top of the Bitcoin Core +> roll out. +> +> +> +> +> _______________________________________________ +> bitcoin-dev mailing list +> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev +> +> + + +-- +I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my value. Do you need a +techie? +I own Litmocracy <http://www.litmocracy.com> and Meme Racing +<http://www.memeracing.net> (in alpha). +I'm the webmaster for The Voluntaryist <http://www.voluntaryist.com> which +now accepts Bitcoin. +I also code for The Dollar Vigilante <http://dollarvigilante.com/>. +"He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules" - Satoshi +Nakamoto + +--001a11330c941371e6052711e968 +Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Pieter Wui= +lle via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lis= +ts.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation= +.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>> I indeed think we can communicate much b= +etter that deciding consensus<br>> rules is not within our power.<br><br= +>I'm not a core dev, so maybe I have the power to change the consensus = +rules.=C2=A0 No one has that power, actually, at least not legitimately.=C2= +=A0 All we can do is build it and hope enough people find it acceptable to = +adopt.=C2=A0 Who doesn't want to hard fork to 2MB blocks on May 5th and= + why not?<br><br></div>I have a bitcoin to be split up among all those who = +suffer from a May 5, 2016 hardfork to 2MB blocks if they can prove it to me= +, or prove it to enough engineers that I succumb to peer pressure.=C2=A0 I = +would have to respect the engineers though.<br><br></div>There!<br><br></di= +v>Now that we've agreed to have a hard fork on May 5th, 2016, we might = +decide to implement some other methods of avoiding the FFM, like braiding t= +he blockchain or flexcap, or just let anyone mining on top of a block make = +one that is a five or ten Kb larger.<br><div><div><br></div><div>notplato<b= +r></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot= +e">On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev <span dir= +=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" targe= +t=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrote:<br= +><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1= +px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"">On Wed, D= +ec 16, 2015 at 1:36 PM, jl2012 <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jl20= +12@xbt.hk" target=3D"_blank">jl2012@xbt.hk</a>></span> wrote:<br></span>= +<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D""><blo= +ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c= +cc solid;padding-left:1ex">4. In the miners round table on the second day, = +one of the devs mentioned that he didn't want to be seen as the decisio= +n maker of Bitcoin. On the other hand, Chinese miners repeatedly mentioned = +that they want several concrete proposals from devs which they could choose= +. I see no contradiction between these 2 viewpoints.<br></blockquote><div><= +br></div></span><div>This was a very interesting dynamic, and seems fair (m= +enu).</div><span class=3D""><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote cla= +ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa= +dding-left:1ex">6. I believe we should avoid a radical "Economic Chang= +e Event" at least in the next halving cycle, as Bitcoin was designed t= +o bootstrap the adoption by high mining reward in the beginning. For this r= +eason, I support an early and conservative increase, such as BIP102 or 2-4-= +8. 2MB is accepted by most people and it's better than nothing for BIP1= +01 proponents. By "early" I mean to be effective by May, at least= + 2 months before the halving.<br></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Th= +at was precisely my logic for picking May 5 as the hard fork date.=C2=A0 So= +me buffer before halving, enough for caution and iteration in the meantime.= +</div><span class=3D""><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><b= +r></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:= +0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> +<br>(c) My most optimistic guess is SW will be ready in 6 months, which wil= +l be very close to halving and potential tx volume burst. And it may not be= + done in 2016, as it does not only involve consensus code, but also change = +in the p2p protocol and wallet design<br></blockquote><div><br></div></span= +><div>Not just wallet design -- you have to game through the standard steps= + of: =C2=A0update dev lib (bitcoin-core.js/bitcoinj) + release cycle, updat= +e app + release cycle, for most actors in the ecosystem, on top of the Bitc= +oin Core roll out.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>= +</div></div> +<br>_______________________________________________<br> +bitcoin-dev mailing list<br> +<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.= +linuxfoundation.org</a><br> +<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" = +rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= +man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br> +<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail= +_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">I like to provide some work at no charge to pr= +ove my value. Do you need a techie?=C2=A0 <br>I own <a href=3D"http://www.l= +itmocracy.com" target=3D"_blank">Litmocracy</a> and <a href=3D"http://www.m= +emeracing.net" target=3D"_blank">Meme Racing</a> (in alpha). <br>I'm th= +e webmaster for <a href=3D"http://www.voluntaryist.com" target=3D"_blank">T= +he Voluntaryist</a> which now accepts Bitcoin.<br>I also code for <a href= +=3D"http://dollarvigilante.com/" target=3D"_blank">The Dollar Vigilante</a>= +.<br>"He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules" -= + Satoshi Nakamoto</div></div> +</div> + +--001a11330c941371e6052711e968-- + |