diff options
| author | Zheming Lin <heater@gmail.com> | 2017-06-15 02:29:35 +0800 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2017-06-14 18:30:30 +0000 |
| commit | d7bda1979b94efef4d51bd15652948cfc45b7bec (patch) | |
| tree | f7ded60380450a2a0dc6e4e3990a7cb9b7e3717d | |
| parent | f9d1957ad15c917ade3e55a14095a7f00de24956 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-d7bda1979b94efef4d51bd15652948cfc45b7bec.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-d7bda1979b94efef4d51bd15652948cfc45b7bec.zip | |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Demonstration of Phase in Full Network Upgrade Activated by Miners
| -rw-r--r-- | 66/9410e0e34a2dfe9a23d556327de5f22e20d7f7 | 367 |
1 files changed, 367 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/66/9410e0e34a2dfe9a23d556327de5f22e20d7f7 b/66/9410e0e34a2dfe9a23d556327de5f22e20d7f7 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0c95fbb3c --- /dev/null +++ b/66/9410e0e34a2dfe9a23d556327de5f22e20d7f7 @@ -0,0 +1,367 @@ +Return-Path: <heater@gmail.com> +Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org + [172.17.192.35]) + by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9877DBF6 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Wed, 14 Jun 2017 18:30:30 +0000 (UTC) +X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 +Received: from mail-pg0-f66.google.com (mail-pg0-f66.google.com [74.125.83.66]) + by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE4AC1BB + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Wed, 14 Jun 2017 18:30:26 +0000 (UTC) +Received: by mail-pg0-f66.google.com with SMTP id a70so1055851pge.0 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Wed, 14 Jun 2017 11:30:26 -0700 (PDT) +DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; 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+ Wed, 14 Jun 2017 11:30:26 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from [192.168.249.10] ([180.166.55.198]) + by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id + s88sm1369927pfk.16.2017.06.14.11.30.24 + (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); + Wed, 14 Jun 2017 11:30:25 -0700 (PDT) +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="Apple-Mail=_FF1B5062-AD81-440E-9050-35037EB8E021" +Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.0 \(3431\)) +From: Zheming Lin <heater@gmail.com> +In-Reply-To: <CADL_X_fdZG50HHb3iOePrzuOwU55tAqP80u3--xXEDWBKL7=jg@mail.gmail.com> +Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 02:29:35 +0800 +Message-Id: <31040BE1-64ED-4D05-BCBE-E80BC7B9A182@gmail.com> +References: <A6AE8145-8C8A-44C2-88D3-8574D895AF6B@gmail.com> + <CAAS2fgT=0k0NJWsO_TtBRTi2VqZtzuT1d1Sk+KZ2+2PUcA71tg@mail.gmail.com> + <A5275580-0EA3-4021-8E4E-55E214BCEECB@gmail.com> + <CADL_X_fdZG50HHb3iOePrzuOwU55tAqP80u3--xXEDWBKL7=jg@mail.gmail.com> +To: Jameson Lopp <jameson.lopp@gmail.com> +X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3431) +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, + DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,FREEMAIL_REPLY,HTML_MESSAGE, + MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=no version=3.3.1 +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on + smtp1.linux-foundation.org +X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:03:46 +0000 +Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Demonstration of Phase in Full Network + Upgrade Activated by Miners +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 18:30:30 -0000 + + +--Apple-Mail=_FF1B5062-AD81-440E-9050-35037EB8E021 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset=gb2312 + +Hi Jameson: + +> =D4=DA 2017=C4=EA6=D4=C215=C8=D5=A3=AC01:20=A3=ACJameson Lopp = +<jameson.lopp@gmail.com <mailto:jameson.lopp@gmail.com>> =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA= + +>=20 +>=20 +>=20 +> On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Zheming Lin via bitcoin-dev = +<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org = +<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote: +>=20 +>=20 +> > =D4=DA 2017=C4=EA6=D4=C214=C8=D5=A3=AC02:11=A3=ACGregory Maxwell = +<greg@xiph.org <mailto:greg@xiph.org>> =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA +> > +> > On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 2:23 AM, Zheming Lin via bitcoin-dev +> > <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org = +<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote: +>=20 +> > The enforcement of the system's rules by users broadly, and not just +> > miners, is specifically described in the white paper (section 8, +> > paragraph 2, it especially clear in the last sentence). This is +> > critical for the security of Bitcoin especially with the current +> > degree of centralization in pools. Without it, Bitcoin's security +> > would look a lot more like the Ripple system. +> > +>=20 +> =CA=C7=B5=C4=A3=AC=D3=C3=BB=A7=D3=C0=D4=B6=B6=BC=D3=D0=D1=A1=D4=F1=A3=AC= +=B2=A2=BF=C9=D2=D4=C5=D7=C6=FA=C4=C7=D0=A9=BD=DA=B5=E3=A1=A3=D5=E2=B8=F6 = +BIP = +=B2=A2=C3=BB=D3=D0=B7=B4=B6=D4=D5=E2=D0=A9=D3=C3=BB=A7=D5=E2=C3=B4=D7=F6=A1= +=A3=D6=BB=D3=D0=C4=C7=D0=A9=B1=BB=B6=AF=B5=C4=C7=AE=B0=FC=D3=C3=BB=A7=A3=AC= +=CB=FB=C3=C7=D0=E8=D2=AA=D6=AA=B5=C0=B1=D8=D0=EB=D7=F6=B3=F6=D2=BB=B8=F6=D1= +=A1=D4=F1=A1=A3=A3=A8=B6=F8=B2=BB=CA=C7=B1=BB=B6=AF=B5=C4=B8=FA=CB=E6=C4=AC= +=C8=CF=B5=C4=B2=DF=C2=D4=A3=A9 +> Yes, users always have choice that they can abandon the nodes. This = +BIP does=A1=AFt go against them. I mean only the one(especially wallets) = +that=A1=AFs passive, they need to know there=A1=AFs a choice and pick = +one. +>=20 +> =D5=E2=B8=F6 BIP = +=BF=C9=D2=D4=B1=BB=D3=A6=D3=C3=D3=DA=BC=B8=BA=F5=C8=CE=BA=CE=B5=C4=C9=FD=BC= +=B6=C9=CF=A3=AC=B0=FC=C0=A8=B8=F4=C0=EB=BC=FB=D6=A4=A3=AC=C1=BD=D5=D7=B5=C4= +=B8=F4=C0=EB=BC=FB=D6=A4=A3=AC=C1=BD=D5=D7=C0=A9=C8=DD=A3=AC=D3=BF=CF=D6=B9= +=B2=CA=B6=A3=AC=B0=CB=D5=D7=C0=A9=C8=DD=B5=C8=A1=A3=B5=AB=D5=E2=D0=A9=C9=FD= +=BC=B6=B2=A2=B2=BB=CA=C7=D6=D8=B5=E3=A1=A3 +> This BIP can be applied to almost any upgrade, including Segwit, = +Segwit2x, 2m, ec, 8m=A1=AD but the upgrade is not the key point. +>=20 +> =B5=BD=B5=D7=CE=D2=C3=C7=B5=C4=D3=C3=BB=A7=CA=C7=B7=F1=D5=E6=B5=C4=D3=B5= +=D3=D0=D1=A1=D4=F1=A3=BF +> Did the users have any real choice? +>=20 +> = +=CE=D2=B2=A2=B2=BB=C4=DC=C0=ED=BD=E2=CB=FB=C3=C7=CF=E0=D0=C5=B4=F3=B2=BF=B7= +=D6=BF=F3=B9=A4=A3=A8=BE=CD=CF=F1=B5=B1=C7=B0=D2=BB=D1=F9=A3=A9=A3=AC=B5=AB= +=BE=DC=BE=F8=D5=E2=D0=A9=B6=E0=CA=FD=BF=F3=B9=A4=B6=D4=D0=AD=D2=E9=B8=C4=B1= +=E4=B5=C4=CD=B6=C6=B1=BD=E1=B9=FB=A1=A3 +> I don=A1=AFt see the reason they trust the majority miners(as they do = +today) but refuse the vote for upcoming protocol upgrade. +>=20 +> To be clear, Bitcoin is not a democracy - if you find yourself using = +the term "voting" then you may be misunderstanding how consensus forms. = +Once a feature has been vetted and the code is deployed, miners may = +signal that they are ready to enforce new rules. If for some reason = +miners are too "passive or lazy" or wish to "veto" the activation of the = +new rules, users may choose to circumvent said veto by refusing to = +accept blocks that do not show readiness for enforcing the new rules. + +How does the users show their opinion? They can fork away and leave. But = +what remains will be united. Are you afraid of the united users or the = +fork? + +I agree with you that the =A1=B0vote=A1=B1 is not accurate. Could you = +kindly suggest an other word for that? + +I think users should have choice to follow the miners or not. Do you = +agree with this or not? + +> =20 +>=20 +> = +=B6=D4=C7=AE=B0=FC=D3=C3=BB=A7=B5=C4=D1=A1=D4=F1=A3=AC=CA=C7=CB=FB=C3=C7=CA= +=C7=B7=F1=CF=E0=D0=C5=B6=E0=CA=FD=BF=F3=B9=A4=A1=A3=C8=E7=B9=FB=CB=FB=C3=C7= +=B2=BB=CF=E0=D0=C5=A3=AC=BF=C9=D2=D4=CD=A8=B9=FD=B7=D6=B2=E6=C0=B4=CF=FB=B3= +=FD=B5=F4=BF=F3=B9=A4=A1=A3 +> This choice for wallet users right now, is wether to follow the 51% = +majority miners. If they don=A1=AFt, they can have their fork that get = +rid of miners. +>=20 +> =C8=E7=B9=FB=CB=FB=C3=C7=C8=D4=BE=C9=CF=E0=D0=C5=BF=F3=B9=A4=A3=AC=C4=C7= +=C3=B4=BF=C9=D2=D4=C1=F4=CF=C2=C0=B4=B2=A2=B8=FA=CB=E6=BF=F3=B9=A4=BD=AB=C0= +=B4=B5=C4=D0=AD=D2=E9=B8=C4=B1=E4=A1=A3 +> If they do trust the majority miners, they stay and follow the vote = +for upcoming protocol upgrade. +>=20 +> = +=CB=F9=D2=D4=CE=CA=CC=E2=D4=DA=D3=DA=A3=BA=B1=C8=CC=D8=B1=D2=B5=C4=BF=AA=B7= +=A2=D5=DF=A1=A2=D3=C3=BB=A7=A1=A2=D3=B5=D3=D0=D5=DF=A1=A2=B7=FE=CE=F1=CC=E1= +=B9=A9=D5=DF=A1=A2=C9=F5=D6=C1=BF=F3=B9=A4=A3=AC=CA=C7=B7=F1=A3=A8=C8=D4=C8= +=BB=A3=A9=C8=E7=B0=D7=C6=A4=CA=E9=D6=D0=C3=E8=CA=F6=B5=C4=B6=D4=B4=F3=B6=E0= +=CA=FD=BF=F3=B9=A4=D3=B5=D3=D0=D0=C5=C8=CE=A1=A3 +> So the questions is: Do the bitcoin developers, users, holders, = +service provides, even miners, (still) have faith in the majority of = +miners as designed in the white paper? +>=20 +> =20 +> There is a fundamental misconception regarding this point - the white = +paper refers to majority hashpower needing to be honest with regard to = +determining the correct chain within the context of many possible = +/valid/ chain forks. It is not referring to using hashpower to determine = +the correct chain amongst an infinitely variable number of currently = +invalid chain forks. Bitcoin ecosystem participants should not have = +faith in miners (or any other entity) when it comes to choosing the = +consensus rules they wish to enforce. +>=20 + +Arrrgh. I think in the BIP, the miners just invalids tx version 1 = +temporarily. That=A1=AFs a =A1=B0soft fork=A1=B1 right? If they dislike = +the idea, they can leave as always. + + +Regards + +LIN Zheming + + +--Apple-Mail=_FF1B5062-AD81-440E-9050-35037EB8E021 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Content-Type: text/html; + charset=gb2312 + +<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = +charset=3Dgb2312"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = +-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><meta= + http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html charset=3Dgb2312" = +class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: = +space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi Jameson:<br = +class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" = +class=3D""><div class=3D"">=D4=DA 2017=C4=EA6=D4=C215=C8=D5=A3=AC01:20=A3=AC= +Jameson Lopp <<a href=3D"mailto:jameson.lopp@gmail.com" = +class=3D"">jameson.lopp@gmail.com</a>> =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA</div><br = +class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><br = +class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; = +font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = +font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = +text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = +word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><div = +class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = +font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; = +letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = +text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = +-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 9:39 AM, = +Zheming Lin via bitcoin-dev<span = +class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir=3D"ltr" = +class=3D""><<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" = +target=3D"_blank" = +class=3D"">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span><span = +class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br = +class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px = +0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; = +border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><span = +class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">> =D4=DA = +2017=C4=EA6=D4=C214=C8=D5=A3=AC02:11=A3=ACGregory Maxwell <<a = +href=3D"mailto:greg@xiph.org" class=3D"">greg@xiph.org</a>> =D0=B4=B5=C0= +=A3=BA<br class=3D"">><br class=3D"">> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at = +2:23 AM, Zheming Lin via bitcoin-dev<br class=3D"">> <<a = +href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" = +class=3D"">bitcoin-dev@lists.<wbr class=3D"">linuxfoundation.org</a>> = +wrote:<br class=3D""></span><span class=3D""><br class=3D"">> The = +enforcement of the system's rules by users broadly, and not just<br = +class=3D"">> miners, is specifically described in the white paper = +(section 8,<br class=3D"">> paragraph 2, it especially clear in the = +last sentence). This is<br class=3D"">> critical for the = +security of Bitcoin especially with the current<br class=3D"">> = +degree of centralization in pools. Without it, Bitcoin's = +security<br class=3D"">> would look a lot more like the Ripple = +system.<br class=3D"">><br class=3D""><br = +class=3D""></span>=CA=C7=B5=C4=A3=AC=D3=C3=BB=A7=D3=C0=D4=B6=B6=BC=D3=D0=D1= +=A1=D4=F1=A3=AC=B2=A2=BF=C9=D2=D4=C5=D7=C6=FA=C4=C7=D0=A9=BD=DA=B5=E3=A1=A3= +=D5=E2=B8=F6 BIP =B2=A2=C3=BB=D3=D0=B7=B4=B6=D4=D5=E2=D0=A9=D3=C3=BB=A7=D5= +=E2=C3=B4=D7=F6=A1=A3=D6=BB=D3=D0=C4=C7=D0=A9=B1=BB=B6=AF=B5=C4=C7=AE=B0=FC= +=D3=C3=BB=A7=A3=AC<wbr = +class=3D"">=CB=FB=C3=C7=D0=E8=D2=AA=D6=AA=B5=C0=B1=D8=D0=EB=D7=F6=B3=F6=D2= +=BB=B8=F6=D1=A1=D4=F1=A1=A3=A3=A8=B6=F8=B2=BB=CA=C7=B1=BB=B6=AF=B5=C4=B8=FA= +=CB=E6=C4=AC=C8=CF=B5=C4=B2=DF=C2=D4=A3=A9<br class=3D"">Yes, users = +always have choice that they can abandon the nodes. This BIP does=A1=AFt = +go against them. I mean only the one(especially wallets) that=A1=AFs = +passive, they need to know there=A1=AFs a choice and pick one.<br = +class=3D""><br class=3D"">=D5=E2=B8=F6 BIP = +=BF=C9=D2=D4=B1=BB=D3=A6=D3=C3=D3=DA=BC=B8=BA=F5=C8=CE=BA=CE=B5=C4=C9=FD=BC= +=B6=C9=CF=A3=AC=B0=FC=C0=A8=B8=F4=C0=EB=BC=FB=D6=A4=A3=AC=C1=BD=D5=D7=B5=C4= +=B8=F4=C0=EB=BC=FB=D6=A4=A3=AC<wbr = +class=3D"">=C1=BD=D5=D7=C0=A9=C8=DD=A3=AC=D3=BF=CF=D6=B9=B2=CA=B6=A3=AC=B0= +=CB=D5=D7=C0=A9=C8=DD=B5=C8=A1=A3=B5=AB=D5=E2=D0=A9=C9=FD=BC=B6=B2=A2=B2=BB= +=CA=C7=D6=D8=B5=E3=A1=A3<br class=3D"">This BIP can be applied to almost = +any upgrade, including Segwit, Segwit2x, 2m, ec, 8m=A1=AD but the = +upgrade is not the key point.<br class=3D""><br = +class=3D"">=B5=BD=B5=D7=CE=D2=C3=C7=B5=C4=D3=C3=BB=A7=CA=C7=B7=F1=D5=E6=B5= +=C4=D3=B5=D3=D0=D1=A1=D4=F1=A3=BF<br class=3D"">Did the users have any = +real choice?<br class=3D""><br = +class=3D"">=CE=D2=B2=A2=B2=BB=C4=DC=C0=ED=BD=E2=CB=FB=C3=C7=CF=E0=D0=C5=B4= +=F3=B2=BF=B7=D6=BF=F3=B9=A4=A3=A8=BE=CD=CF=F1=B5=B1=C7=B0=D2=BB=D1=F9=A3=A9= +=A3=AC<wbr class=3D"">=B5=AB=BE=DC=BE=F8=D5=E2=D0=A9=B6=E0=CA=FD=BF=F3=B9=A4= +=B6=D4=D0=AD=D2=E9=B8=C4=B1=E4=B5=C4=CD=B6=C6=B1=BD=E1=B9=FB=A1=A3<br = +class=3D"">I don=A1=AFt see the reason they trust the majority miners(as = +they do today) but refuse the vote for upcoming protocol upgrade.<br = +class=3D""></blockquote><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = +class=3D"">To be clear, Bitcoin is not a democracy - if you find = +yourself using the term "voting" then you may be misunderstanding how = +consensus forms. Once a feature has been vetted and the code is = +deployed, miners may signal that they are ready to enforce new rules. If = +for some reason miners are too "passive or lazy" or wish to "veto" the = +activation of the new rules, users may choose to circumvent said veto by = +refusing to accept blocks that do not show readiness for enforcing the = +new rules.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br = +class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">How does the users show their opinion? = +They can fork away and leave. But what remains will be united. Are you = +afraid of the united users or the fork?</div><div class=3D""><br = +class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I agree with you that the =A1=B0vote=A1=B1= + is not accurate. Could you kindly suggest an other word for = +that?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I think = +users should have choice to follow the miners or not. Do you agree with = +this or not?</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div= + class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; = +font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = +font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = +text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = +word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div = +class=3D""> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: = +0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; = +border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><br = +class=3D"">=B6=D4=C7=AE=B0=FC=D3=C3=BB=A7=B5=C4=D1=A1=D4=F1=A3=AC=CA=C7=CB= +=FB=C3=C7=CA=C7=B7=F1=CF=E0=D0=C5=B6=E0=CA=FD=BF=F3=B9=A4=A1=A3=C8=E7=B9=FB= +=CB=FB=C3=C7=B2=BB=CF=E0=D0=C5=A3=AC<wbr = +class=3D"">=BF=C9=D2=D4=CD=A8=B9=FD=B7=D6=B2=E6=C0=B4=CF=FB=B3=FD=B5=F4=BF= +=F3=B9=A4=A1=A3<br class=3D"">This choice for wallet users right now, is = +wether to follow the 51% majority miners. If they don=A1=AFt, they can = +have their fork that get rid of miners.<br class=3D""><br = +class=3D"">=C8=E7=B9=FB=CB=FB=C3=C7=C8=D4=BE=C9=CF=E0=D0=C5=BF=F3=B9=A4=A3= +=AC<wbr class=3D"">=C4=C7=C3=B4=BF=C9=D2=D4=C1=F4=CF=C2=C0=B4=B2=A2=B8=FA=CB= +=E6=BF=F3=B9=A4=BD=AB=C0=B4=B5=C4=D0=AD=D2=E9=B8=C4=B1=E4=A1=A3<br = +class=3D"">If they do trust the majority miners, they stay and follow = +the vote for upcoming protocol upgrade.<br class=3D""><br = +class=3D"">=CB=F9=D2=D4=CE=CA=CC=E2=D4=DA=D3=DA=A3=BA=B1=C8=CC=D8=B1=D2=B5= +=C4=BF=AA=B7=A2=D5=DF=A1=A2=D3=C3=BB=A7=A1=A2=D3=B5=D3=D0=D5=DF=A1=A2=B7=FE= +=CE=F1=CC=E1=B9=A9=D5=DF=A1=A2<wbr = +class=3D"">=C9=F5=D6=C1=BF=F3=B9=A4=A3=AC=CA=C7=B7=F1=A3=A8=C8=D4=C8=BB=A3= +=A9=C8=E7=B0=D7=C6=A4=CA=E9=D6=D0=C3=E8=CA=F6=B5=C4=B6=D4=B4=F3=B6=E0=CA=FD= +=BF=F3=B9=A4=D3=B5=D3=D0=D0=C5=C8=CE=A1=A3<br class=3D"">So the = +questions is: Do the bitcoin developers, users, holders, service = +provides, even miners, (still) have faith in the majority of miners as = +designed in the white paper?<br class=3D""><span class=3D""><br = +class=3D""></span></blockquote><div class=3D""> </div><div = +class=3D"">There is a fundamental misconception regarding this point - = +the white paper refers to majority hashpower needing to be honest with = +regard to determining the correct chain within the context of many = +possible /valid/ chain forks. It is not referring to using hashpower to = +determine the correct chain amongst an infinitely variable number of = +currently invalid chain forks. Bitcoin ecosystem participants should not = +have faith in miners (or any other entity) when it comes to choosing the = +consensus rules they wish to enforce.</div><div class=3D""><br = +class=3D""></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br = +class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Arrrgh. I think in the BIP, the miners = +just invalids tx version 1 temporarily. That=A1=AFs a =A1=B0soft fork=A1=B1= + right? If they dislike the idea, they can leave as always.</div><div = +class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = +class=3D"">Regards</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = +class=3D"">LIN Zheming</div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div = +class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; = +font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = +font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = +text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = +word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><blockquote = +class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; = +border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: = +rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div = +class=3D"h5"></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br = +class=3D""></div></body></html>= + +--Apple-Mail=_FF1B5062-AD81-440E-9050-35037EB8E021-- + |