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authorPieter Wuille <pieter.wuille@gmail.com>2013-10-26 23:30:37 +0200
committerbitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>2013-10-26 21:30:43 +0000
commitcae0c670677225f869f9252ff0610690b61d26b5 (patch)
tree53f89d4a2ec83d9ea72a86d3a649a2f0127cb256
parente47d7a71f4c2f92ae1d3309ee0032c5282553abc (diff)
downloadpi-bitcoindev-cae0c670677225f869f9252ff0610690b61d26b5.tar.gz
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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal to replace BIP0039
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+Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 23:30:37 +0200
+Message-ID: <CAPg+sBiuLJJV3pB-EF3O9sgB_Z3tuLhEg9k=A9mcxJvgy3UQSw@mail.gmail.com>
+From: Pieter Wuille <pieter.wuille@gmail.com>
+To: slush <slush@centrum.cz>
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+Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal to replace BIP0039
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+
+Let's first try to agree on what we are solving.
+
+It seems that Thomas wants - in addition to the cryptographic data -
+to encode the tree structure, or at least version information about
+what features are used in it, inside the seed.
+
+I'm not sure whether we're ready to standardize on something like that
+yet, not having established best practices regarding different wallet
+structures. I do think we first need to see what possibilities and
+developments are possible related to it.
+
+In addition, information about the wallet structure is strictly less
+secret than the key data - it is even less confidential than address
+book data, transaction annotations, labels and comments and
+bookkeeping information. It could be backed up anywhere and everywhere
+without any repercussions, as far as I can see. I understand that in
+the case of Electrum, there is a strong reason to want this
+encapsulated together with the seed, but it's not really a requirement
+for most wallets.
+(if really needed, any key derivation scheme that starts from random
+strings can be augmented with metadata by enforcing property-bits on a
+hash of the string (so not of the output), as this data doesn't need
+protection from brute-forcing).
+
+Regarding other requirements, I wonder why we want the transformation
+to be bidirectional? If it is just about generating master seeds, one
+direction should be enough, and allows far nicer properties w.r.t.
+security. If we do settle on a standard for 'brainwallets', I would
+strongly prefer if it had at least some strengthening built-in, to
+decrease the impact of worst-case situations.
+If the reason is backward-compatibility, I think that any client that
+supports seeds already can just keep supporting whatever they
+supported before. Only if it matches both encoding schemes (as
+mentioned before) there is a potential collision (and in that case,
+the user could just be asked).
+
+--
+Pieter
+
+
+On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:47 PM, slush <slush@centrum.cz> wrote:
+> Hi Thomas,
+>
+> can you more elaborate on that "version" bits? What is exact meaning of it?
+> I still think this is more an implementation problem. What stops Electrum to
+> do the same algorithm for searching branches as it is now for used
+> addresses?
+>
+> These "version bits" need to be covered by the specification as well,
+> because if any client will use them differently (or won't use them at all),
+> it will break cross-compatibility between clients, which was another goal of
+> bip39.
+>
+> Marek
+>
+>
+>
+>
+> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Thomas Voegtlin <thomasv1@gmx.de> wrote:
+>>
+>> here is a simple implementation, with some ideas on how to format the
+>> metadata:
+>> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:BIP_0039
+>>
+>>
+>>
+>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+>> October Webinars: Code for Performance
+>> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
+>> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most
+>> from
+>> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >
+>>
+>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135991&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
+>> _______________________________________________
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+>
+>
+>
+> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+> October Webinars: Code for Performance
+> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
+> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most
+> from
+> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >
+> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135991&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
+> _______________________________________________
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+>
+
+