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author | Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> | 2017-05-22 09:33:35 -0400 |
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committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2017-05-22 13:33:44 +0000 |
commit | c41beaa1d60c5f06ee45a1c90c8c62ee3b7dddcd (patch) | |
tree | 073c987c4685c8bee6fdda1d86ef3803e3604d8b | |
parent | 2413918c00e0b43f31ca62dcbdd1b37ed0fa1874 (diff) | |
download | pi-bitcoindev-c41beaa1d60c5f06ee45a1c90c8c62ee3b7dddcd.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-c41beaa1d60c5f06ee45a1c90c8c62ee3b7dddcd.zip |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain -- Request for Discussion
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1 files changed, 133 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/a5/c571e3743344ea63738962d6f8094513abf6a2 b/a5/c571e3743344ea63738962d6f8094513abf6a2 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b6a3f5580 --- /dev/null +++ b/a5/c571e3743344ea63738962d6f8094513abf6a2 @@ -0,0 +1,133 @@ +Return-Path: <pete@petertodd.org> +Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org + [172.17.192.35]) + by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F7BAB3F + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Mon, 22 May 2017 13:33:44 +0000 (UTC) +X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 +Received: from outmail148161.authsmtp.com (outmail148161.authsmtp.com + [62.13.148.161]) + by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 424031CE + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Mon, 22 May 2017 13:33:42 +0000 (UTC) +Received: from mail-c232.authsmtp.com (mail-c232.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.232]) + by punt24.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id v4MDXeUS075910; + Mon, 22 May 2017 14:33:40 +0100 (BST) +Received: from petertodd.org (ec2-52-5-185-120.compute-1.amazonaws.com + [52.5.185.120]) (authenticated bits=0) + by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id v4MDXcCO024377 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); + Mon, 22 May 2017 14:33:39 +0100 (BST) +Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by petertodd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DD423400DE; + Mon, 22 May 2017 13:33:37 +0000 (UTC) +Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) + id 142E420101; Mon, 22 May 2017 09:33:35 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 09:33:35 -0400 +From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> +To: Paul Sztorc <truthcoin@gmail.com> +Message-ID: <20170522133335.GA17194@fedora-23-dvm> +References: <24f2b447-a237-45eb-ef9f-1a62533fad5c@gmail.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gKMricLos+KVdGMg" +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <24f2b447-a237-45eb-ef9f-1a62533fad5c@gmail.com> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) +X-Server-Quench: 43caff52-3ef3-11e7-829f-00151795d556 +X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: + http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse +X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR + aAdMdAAUFVQNAgsB AmEbWlBeU157Wmo7 bghPaBtcak9QXgdq + T0pMXVMcUgEVdXRS dWEeUB1xcAIIfnh1 ZwhmXSMKChJ/d1t+ + FxhXCGwHMGB9YGIW Bl1YdwJRcQRDe0tA b1YxNiYHcQ5VPz4z + GA41ejw8IwAXBD5U XAwGLVsTRw5OW3YG SgkfEC4zVUMCXW0f + LgctN0UHHUEXWgAA +X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1037:706 +X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) +X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 52.5.185.120/25 +X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own + anti-virus system. +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW + autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on + smtp1.linux-foundation.org +Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain -- Request for Discussion +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 13:33:44 -0000 + + +--gKMricLos+KVdGMg +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 +Content-Disposition: inline +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 02:17:07AM -0400, Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev wrote: +> This work includes the relatively new concept of "Blind Merged Mining" +> [2] which I developed in January to allow SHA256^2 miners to merge-mine +> these "drivechains", even if these miners aren't running the actual +> sidechain software. The goal is to prevent sidechains from affecting the +> levelness of the mining "playing field". BMM is conceptually similar to +> ZooKeeV [3] which Peter Todd sketched out in mid-2013. BMM is not +> required for drivechain, but it would address some of the last remaining +> concerns. + +Thanks for the credit, although I think the security properties of what you= +'re +proposing are very different - and much weaker - than what I proposed in +Zookeyv. + +As you state in [2] "if miners never validate sidechains at all, whoever bi= +ds +the most for the chain (on a continuous basis), can spam a 3-month long str= +eam +of invalid headers, and then withdraw all of the coins deposited to the +sidechain." and "Since the mining is blind, and the sidechain-withdrawal +security-level is SPV, miners who remain blind forever have no way of telli= +ng +who =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D really get the funds." + +Finally, you suggest that in this event, miners *do* have to upgrade to a f= +ull +node, an expensive and time-consuming operation (and one that may be imposs= +ible +for some miners if necessary data isn't available). + +It's unclear to me what the incentive is for miners to do any of this. Could +you explain in more detail what that incentive is? + + +> [2] http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/blind-merged-mining/ +> [3] https://s3.amazonaws.com/peter.todd/bitcoin-wizards-13-10-17.log + +--=20 +https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org + +--gKMricLos+KVdGMg +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" +Content-Description: Digital signature + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- + +iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZIuitAAoJECSBQD2l8JH7JvMH/iapcbd5y+yV7S2FcfrzBpvg +2OUVrivXwrlDRPO51dqsW0IiUt2eX+zqVvL7pX7zYxWh5kPshzz4g5OmEI6qA6jA +VCYL230ieRkCg1WUGTC6xChK9I0GGvsxUvYpMpSHhXYMYdwhMrj/paVIxoMQ1eH0 +7jHMwZbsSvfXsUShAg8MCprGsF4/8XPLCnXh/jrLOhCvYzhxPpSKcv9xtSBe78gS +HKiyn7ccKPskTuq3xT7x1j9gOBxULmIXESp62G1YziqQdTMAEp3+cdLUiDjySdcT +r6jpmCSToG/xnOpHhFF4LiF0NRTb4/WqufB6drXpFdwGTmJpy128pTC8ohy/5nM= +=p8L2 +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--gKMricLos+KVdGMg-- + |