diff options
| author | Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl> | 2025-04-01 11:06:05 +0200 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> | 2025-04-01 03:09:51 -0700 |
| commit | c23418fe33c71ab338a2146b00fd5500b4a09247 (patch) | |
| tree | a90bfe07c3de95b64085e483bca973607dcbdd1e | |
| parent | bf99df440ad097f2bd7ca76445bd9582d1c2054b (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-c23418fe33c71ab338a2146b00fd5500b4a09247.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-c23418fe33c71ab338a2146b00fd5500b4a09247.zip | |
Re: [bitcoindev] Does anyone still need testnet3?
| -rw-r--r-- | 0a/6d36191cc4bc9acac0359f544951fed31f4b9f | 285 |
1 files changed, 285 insertions, 0 deletions
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[202.12.124.156]) + by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5614622812f47-3ff0518873asi382599b6e.2.2025.04.01.02.06.17 + for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> + (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); + Tue, 01 Apr 2025 02:06:17 -0700 (PDT) +Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 202.12.124.156 as permitted sender) client-ip=202.12.124.156; +Received: from phl-compute-10.internal (phl-compute-10.phl.internal [10.202.2.50]) + by mailfhigh.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B6A42540235; + Tue, 1 Apr 2025 05:06:17 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) + by phl-compute-10.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 01 Apr 2025 05:06:17 -0400 +X-ME-Sender: <xms:iKzrZz8sBCX0YzBmFMcWvqj0d-M3Ajss83-Q09gJDRs7trG1_2Y5fw> + <xme:iKzrZ_uMkTYaJgvEds0DolikMUptcdKqZe6ONkY7Ap3CmoXjvecTaJKGmc9zY7XmX + QPInIJo2_iSAPHDAg> +X-ME-Received: <xmr:iKzrZxDhZpnHDvUmRno8q7OtwLZH8-oYcTAs1c2drEszEuMnXHAI_e8C04THsZ6qzte6> +X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgddukedvgedtucetufdoteggodetrf + dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggv + pdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpih + gvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffktgggufffjgevvfhfofesrgdtmherhhdt + jeenucfhrhhomhepufhjohhrshcurfhrohhvohhoshhtuceoshhjohhrshesshhprhhovh + hoohhsthdrnhhlqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeetueduveelffeuteeilefhudehgeev + ieektdeileefvdekheeifedvuedvkeegvdenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtoh + hmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepshhj + ohhrshesshhprhhovhhoohhsthdrnhhlpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopedvpdhmohguvgepsh + hmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopegsihhttghoihhnuggvvhesghhoohhglhgvghhrohhu + phhsrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepshgrnhhkvghtudejvdelsehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhm +X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:iKzrZ_efpV71FjpUAAaKg4t9a9GMKHIHqhKVjo2smNy-LlVnWLf_Eg> + <xmx:iKzrZ4PKNACthFNkhNoyuQhX85EqC2tpd_AbCA43G_CJ6tW39ANcOw> + <xmx:iKzrZxmIFlAQ7Xsb0MSuJvo9xc519MRppmHlC-Cb9cKOJxYr6YzNYA> + <xmx:iKzrZyv6h-8glow8oTpcVORD5xqK0HrudoQ4WJhO4tFh2Y9U14HlyQ> + <xmx:iazrZxaFTy8HNu2S_pn5_eW9JywkY1CGkCVCdRxdDo_3PPaGxaXx5s0w> +Feedback-ID: ie5e042df:Fastmail +Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, + 1 Apr 2025 05:06:16 -0400 (EDT) +From: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl> +Message-Id: <4B21A2CA-2224-4BD1-AA5D-C5B2F8859E4B@sprovoost.nl> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="Apple-Mail=_E933C5D2-E5C2-432A-B19D-DDB0156A92E1" +Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.400.131.1.6\)) +Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Does anyone still need testnet3? +Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2025 11:06:05 +0200 +In-Reply-To: <CAExE9c8DHicBYUt-6LfH96rLEW=6gkGxn-smsCY1vnahyPKXpA@mail.gmail.com> +Cc: Sanket Kanjalkar <sanket1729@gmail.com> +To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> +References: <9FAA7EEC-BD22-491E-B21B-732AEA15F556@sprovoost.nl> + <7c28f8e9-d221-4633-8b71-53b4db07fa78@schildbach.de> + <CAKaEYhLuQDMKXaVhbQ2BrwHdHg7zPBiO-NgH6GhACufoqR2T4A@mail.gmail.com> + <CAExE9c8DHicBYUt-6LfH96rLEW=6gkGxn-smsCY1vnahyPKXpA@mail.gmail.com> +X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.400.131.1.6) +X-Original-Sender: sjors@sprovoost.nl +X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass + header.i=@sprovoost.nl header.s=fm3 header.b=emncnIhP; dkim=pass + header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=q8F1xUxx; spf=pass + (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 202.12.124.156 as + permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sjors@sprovoost.nl; dmarc=pass (p=NONE + sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=sprovoost.nl +Precedence: list +Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com +List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com> +X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 +List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> +List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com> +List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev +List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com> +List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>, + <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe> +X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) + + +--Apple-Mail=_E933C5D2-E5C2-432A-B19D-DDB0156A92E1 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" + +Hi Sanket, + +I've heard before from some lightning folks that migrating to testnet4 pres= +ents a chicken-egg problem. + +If we were to start rotating test networks a frequency of e.g. once every t= +hree years, this would become a recurring problem. + +Lightning seems to be a special case because it relies heavily on interoper= +ability, and so any move has to be coordinated between multiple parties eac= +h with their own priorities. + +At the same time Lightning software often needs the latest and greatest Bit= +coin Core version e.g. for its new policy features. So sticking to v29 back= +-ports isn't a long term viable option. + + +I think it's worth considering for the lightning industry to organize a cus= +tom signet, either a 1-of-N with keys distributed among the current players= +, or unsigned proof-of-work based (more hassle, but future new players may = +feel more comfortable joining). Such a network can be kept online definitel= +y and its replacement can be more easily coordinated. Another advantage is = +that soft fork proposals can be tested, similar to how Inquisition does tha= +t on the default signet, but at a pace that matches Bolt spec work. + +- Sjors + +> Op 31 mrt 2025, om 23:15 heeft Sanket Kanjalkar <sanket1729@gmail.com> he= +t volgende geschreven: +>=20 +> Hi Sjors,=20 +> Thanks for asking. Block/Cashapp relies on testnet3 and can't migrate to = +testnet4 mostly because of lack of lightning LND peers. +> I don't think there are any LND Lightning peers on testnet4. We (Block/Ca= +shapp lightning) use LDK for Lightning, but most of our peers run LND. LND = +support for testnet4 was just merged <https://github.com/lightningnetwork/l= +nd/pull/9620>, so it=E2=80=99ll likely take time for the LND community to u= +pdate node infrastructure. +> We want to catch peering, business logic and lightning implementations in= +teroperability issues in testnet. Even though LDK supports testnet4, switch= +ing now isn=E2=80=99t viable for us until our mainnet LND peers migrate.=20 +>=20 + +--=20 +You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= +Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. +To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= +mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. +To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= +4B21A2CA-2224-4BD1-AA5D-C5B2F8859E4B%40sprovoost.nl. + +--Apple-Mail=_E933C5D2-E5C2-432A-B19D-DDB0156A92E1 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" + +<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset= +=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mod= +e: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Hi Sanket,<div><br></div><div>I'v= +e heard before from some lightning folks that migrating to testnet4 present= +s a chicken-egg problem.</div><div><br></div><div>If we were to start rotat= +ing test networks a frequency of e.g. once every three years, this would be= +come a recurring problem.</div><div><br></div><div>Lightning seems to be a = +special case because it relies heavily on interoperability, and so any move= + has to be coordinated between multiple parties each with their own priorit= +ies.</div><div><br></div><div>At the same time Lightning software often nee= +ds the latest and greatest Bitcoin Core version e.g. for its new policy fea= +tures. So sticking to v29 back-ports isn't a long term viable option.</div>= +<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I think it's worth considering for the l= +ightning industry to organize a custom signet, either a 1-of-N with keys di= +stributed among the current players, or unsigned proof-of-work based (more = +hassle, but future new players may feel more comfortable joining). Such a n= +etwork can be kept online definitely and its replacement can be more easily= + coordinated. Another advantage is that soft fork proposals can be tested, = +similar to how Inquisition does that on the default signet, but at a pace t= +hat matches Bolt spec work.</div><div><br></div><div>- Sjors</div><div><br>= +</div><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Op 31 mrt 2025, om 23:15 hee= +ft Sanket Kanjalkar <sanket1729@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:</= +div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi S= +jors, <br><p class=3D"gmail-">Thanks for asking. Block/Cashapp relies = +on testnet3 and can't migrate to testnet4 mostly because of lack of lightni= +ng LND peers.<br>I don't think there are any LND Lightning peers on te= +stnet4. We (Block/Cashapp lightning) use LDK for Lightning, but most o= +f our peers run LND. LND support for testnet4 was just <a href=3D"https://g= +ithub.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/pull/9620">merged</a>, so it=E2=80=99ll like= +ly take time for the LND community to update node infrastructure.<br>We wan= +t to catch peering, business logic and lightning implementations interopera= +bility issues in testnet. Even though LDK supports testnet4, switching now = +isn=E2=80=99t viable for us until our mainnet LND peers migrate. = +</p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html> + +<p></p> + +-- <br /> +You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= +quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.<br /> +To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= +mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bitcoind= +ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br /> +To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= +bitcoindev/4B21A2CA-2224-4BD1-AA5D-C5B2F8859E4B%40sprovoost.nl?utm_medium= +=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= +4B21A2CA-2224-4BD1-AA5D-C5B2F8859E4B%40sprovoost.nl</a>.<br /> + +--Apple-Mail=_E933C5D2-E5C2-432A-B19D-DDB0156A92E1-- + |