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| author | Gary Rowe <g.rowe@froot.co.uk> | 2012-01-31 14:53:57 +0000 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2012-01-31 14:54:07 +0000 |
| commit | c1f5e08cec1ec57cbffffa7c5a36d0e9779a6de7 (patch) | |
| tree | 0650b7a8c119d2ef422c8494a8af254b378f548f | |
| parent | bb3857b0ced2f3b0ce1998941ad9e6431ee16171 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-c1f5e08cec1ec57cbffffa7c5a36d0e9779a6de7.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-c1f5e08cec1ec57cbffffa7c5a36d0e9779a6de7.zip | |
[Bitcoin-development] BIP 20 Rejected, process for BIP 21N
| -rw-r--r-- | 83/46e98f2ac295e0424bc6560b459ed8a28df1d2 | 283 |
1 files changed, 283 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/83/46e98f2ac295e0424bc6560b459ed8a28df1d2 b/83/46e98f2ac295e0424bc6560b459ed8a28df1d2 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bfbe66414 --- /dev/null +++ b/83/46e98f2ac295e0424bc6560b459ed8a28df1d2 @@ -0,0 +1,283 @@ +Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] + helo=mx.sourceforge.net) + by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) + (envelope-from <g.rowe.froot@gmail.com>) id 1RsF5z-0006vB-8e + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:54:07 +0000 +Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com + designates 209.85.160.175 as permitted sender) + client-ip=209.85.160.175; envelope-from=g.rowe.froot@gmail.com; + helo=mail-gy0-f175.google.com; +Received: from mail-gy0-f175.google.com ([209.85.160.175]) + by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) + (Exim 4.76) id 1RsF5v-0001ZS-0h + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:54:07 +0000 +Received: by ghbf19 with SMTP id f19so59164ghb.34 + for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>; + Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:53:57 -0800 (PST) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Received: by 10.236.201.230 with SMTP id b66mr9432486yho.67.1328021637567; + Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:53:57 -0800 (PST) +Sender: g.rowe.froot@gmail.com +Received: by 10.236.195.99 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:53:57 -0800 (PST) +In-Reply-To: <CAKm8k+1cHagzj3T27S=h0PueH8EgcCkEajZGgAw7HcQ=N-46ow@mail.gmail.com> +References: <1328020046.70720.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> + <CAJna-Hhx_JquBCOWA096YDe1HzJhGBrcZvvaDg2_2x9XJM+pNA@mail.gmail.com> + <CAKm8k+1cHagzj3T27S=h0PueH8EgcCkEajZGgAw7HcQ=N-46ow@mail.gmail.com> +Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:53:57 +0000 +X-Google-Sender-Auth: T-Ph1r3ttxMLUJ9VYMte8HW1xSQ +Message-ID: <CAKm8k+1Ha=e8BpUDsRb_UWzmBeMpbRsYu37dwkcGXSG_n7Cd2Q@mail.gmail.com> +From: Gary Rowe <g.rowe@froot.co.uk> +To: Bitcoin Development List <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf305e2529f6157204b7d421c3 +X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) +X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. + See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. + -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for + sender-domain + 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider + (g.rowe.froot[at]gmail.com) + -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record + 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message + 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, + not necessarily valid + -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature +X-Headers-End: 1RsF5v-0001ZS-0h +Subject: [Bitcoin-development] BIP 20 Rejected, process for BIP 21N +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 +Precedence: list +List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:54:07 -0000 + +--20cf305e2529f6157204b7d421c3 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 + +Regarding the decimal vs satoshi notation I see a few problems with satoshi: + +* readability - humans reading the URI would expect it to accurately +reflect what is being displayed (subject to internationalisation issues) +For example, amount=1.234 is more human readable than amount=123400000 (ish) +* backwards compatibility - existing software already uses the decimal +notation +* forwards compatibility - Bitcoin needs to move beyond the satoshi to 20 +dps for some reason, this remains OK within the existing schema, but forces +decimals into the satoshi scheme +* simplicity - dual decimal/satoshi variants should be discouraged under +the "single representation" approach + +It's relatively straightforward to convert a string encoded decimal into an +internal integer for currency calculations just by applying a multiplying +factor. One never uses doubles or floats for money. + + +On 31 January 2012 14:33, slush <slush@centrum.cz> wrote: + +> Hi Amir, +> +> > All the HTML, URI and everything uses decimal numbers alone. I see no +> reason for breaking with tradition. +> +> excuse me if it was already discussed, but maybe using satoshis instead of +> decimal bitcoin would be better choice? We all know about pains with proper +> handling decimal numbers across of all implementations - and it's not only +> about json-rpc. +> +> Otherwise I agree, BIP 21 is better than BIP 20 because it's easier to +> implement all points of the standard. +> +> Best, +> slush +> +> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Amir Taaki <zgenjix@yahoo.com> wrote: +> +>> BIP 20 really has no support among implementations such as Bitcoin-Qt, +>> Electrum, MultiBit or Bitcoin-JS. As the most active and visible user +>> facing GUI projects (all with some form of URI Scheme), their opinion +>> carries the most weight. To a lesser degree Bitcoin-Qt has the large +>> majority of users too (although that's a line of reasoning I'd discourage). +>> +>> Normally we should probably Reject BIP 21 and re-submit a new standard +>> (for history's sake), but as a) BIP 21 is largely a copy paste of BIP 20 +>> sans some sections b) it is still a draft, probably the best thing here is +>> if you all agree on something to run it by BlueMatt and then we'll make it +>> the new BIP 21. +>> +>> I can see a consensus forming on most parts. Just the send private key is +>> contentious, and there's the topic of adding a time to expire field for +>> merchants (this is a very good idea IMO). +>> +>> Also BIP 20 is problematic because it is incompatible with about every +>> standard on the web. All the HTML, URI and everything uses decimal numbers +>> alone. I see no reason for breaking with tradition. Note that everytime I +>> have to write Color or Vectorize (as a British speaker) in my code, I die a +>> little inside. But it's convention and American English = International +>> English. Also it would be cool if all code used a *real* international +>> language (like Esperanto) but the world ain't perfect! We live in a +>> decimal-counting English-speaking Windows-using God-worshipping world! +>> +>> (no offense to decimal-counting English-speaking Windows-using +>> God-worshipping world- I do half those things too :) +>> +>> +>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ +>> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! +>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers +>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, +>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! +>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d +>> _______________________________________________ +>> Bitcoin-development mailing list +>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development +>> +> +> +> +> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ +> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! +> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers +> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, +> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! +> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d +> _______________________________________________ +> Bitcoin-development mailing list +> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development +> +> + +--20cf305e2529f6157204b7d421c3 +Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div class=3D"gmail_quote">Regarding the decimal vs satoshi notation I see = +a few problems with satoshi:<br><br>* readability - humans reading the URI = +would expect it to accurately reflect what is being displayed (subject to i= +nternationalisation issues) For example, amount=3D1.234 is more human reada= +ble than amount=3D123400000 (ish)<br> + +* backwards compatibility - existing software already uses the decimal nota= +tion<br>* forwards compatibility - Bitcoin needs to move beyond the satoshi= + to 20 dps for some reason, this remains OK within the existing schema, but= + forces decimals into the satoshi scheme<br> + +* simplicity - dual decimal/satoshi variants should be discouraged under th= +e "single representation" approach<br><br>It's relatively str= +aightforward to convert a string encoded decimal into an internal integer f= +or currency calculations just by applying a multiplying factor. One never u= +ses doubles or floats for money.<div class=3D"HOEnZb"> +<div class=3D"h5"><br> +<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 31 January 2012 14:33, slush <span dir=3D= +"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:slush@centrum.cz" target=3D"_blank">slush@centr= +um.cz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m= +argin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left= +:1ex"> + +Hi Amir,<div><div><br></div><div><div>>=C2=A0=C2=A0All the HTML, URI and= + everything uses decimal numbers alone. I see no reason for breaking with t= +radition.=C2=A0</div></div><div><br></div></div><div>excuse me if it was al= +ready discussed, but maybe using satoshis instead of decimal bitcoin would = +be better choice? We all know about pains with proper handling decimal numb= +ers across of all implementations - and it's not only about json-rpc.</= +div> + + + +<div><br></div><div>Otherwise I agree, BIP 21 is better than BIP 20 because= + it's easier to implement all points of the standard.</div><div><br></d= +iv><div>Best,</div><span><font color=3D"#888888"><div>slush</div> +</font></span><div><div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 31,= + 2012 at 3:27 PM, Amir Taaki <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:zgenji= +x@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">zgenjix@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> + + +<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-= +left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">BIP 20 really has no supp= +ort among implementations such as Bitcoin-Qt, Electrum, MultiBit or Bitcoin= +-JS. As the most active and visible user facing GUI projects (all with some= + form of URI Scheme), their opinion carries the most weight. To a lesser de= +gree Bitcoin-Qt has the large majority of users too (although that's a = +line of reasoning I'd discourage).<br> + + + + +<br> +Normally we should probably Reject BIP 21 and re-submit a new standard (for= + history's sake), but as a) BIP 21 is largely a copy paste of BIP 20 sa= +ns some sections b) it is still a draft, probably the best thing here is if= + you all agree on something to run it by BlueMatt and then we'll make i= +t the new BIP 21.<br> + + + + +<br> +I can see a consensus forming on most parts. Just the send private key is c= +ontentious, and there's the topic of adding a time to expire field for = +merchants (this is a very good idea IMO).<br> +<br> +Also BIP 20 is problematic because it is incompatible with about every stan= +dard on the web. All the HTML, URI and everything uses decimal numbers alon= +e. I see no reason for breaking with tradition. Note that everytime I have = +to write Color or Vectorize (as a British speaker) in my code, I die a litt= +le inside. But it's convention and American English =3D International E= +nglish. Also it would be cool if all code used a *real* international langu= +age (like Esperanto) but the world ain't perfect! We live in a decimal-= +counting English-speaking Windows-using God-worshipping world!<br> + + + + +<br> +(no offense to=C2=A0decimal-counting English-speaking Windows-using God-wor= +shipping world- I do half those things too :)<br> +<br> +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +---<br> +Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!<br> +The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers<br> +is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,<br= +> +Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!<br> +<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d" target=3D"_blank">http://p.= +sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d</a><br> +_______________________________________________<br> +Bitcoin-development mailing list<br> +<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla= +nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br> +<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development= +" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= +velopment</a><br> +</blockquote></div><br></div> +</div></div><br>-----------------------------------------------------------= +-------------------<br> +Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!<br> +The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers<br> +is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,<br= +> +Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!<br> +<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d" target=3D"_blank">http://p.= +sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d</a><br>_________________________________________= +______<br> +Bitcoin-development mailing list<br> +<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla= +nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br> +<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development= +" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= +velopment</a><br> +<br></blockquote></div><br> +</div></div></div><br> + +--20cf305e2529f6157204b7d421c3-- + + |