diff options
| author | Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> | 2022-04-26 08:39:36 +0200 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2022-04-26 06:39:50 +0000 |
| commit | bea848f482039ffb7f86850efebccff915857fac (patch) | |
| tree | 6d17af2d226ba76a085e7876c029b57f8f28e2f4 | |
| parent | 1872fb515ebb7502f7562ab0b024d78e3b95c96c (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-bea848f482039ffb7f86850efebccff915857fac.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-bea848f482039ffb7f86850efebccff915857fac.zip | |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] What to expect in the next few weeks
| -rw-r--r-- | 7e/dbc52deecb8f799a49c6c5626d2aa199db1b8f | 255 |
1 files changed, 255 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/7e/dbc52deecb8f799a49c6c5626d2aa199db1b8f b/7e/dbc52deecb8f799a49c6c5626d2aa199db1b8f new file mode 100644 index 000000000..64bb07c53 --- /dev/null +++ b/7e/dbc52deecb8f799a49c6c5626d2aa199db1b8f @@ -0,0 +1,255 @@ +Return-Path: <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> +Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137]) + by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 687EBC002D + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Tue, 26 Apr 2022 06:39:50 +0000 (UTC) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47B4E41776 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Tue, 26 Apr 2022 06:39:50 +0000 (UTC) +X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org +X-Spam-Flag: NO +X-Spam-Score: -2.098 +X-Spam-Level: +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 + tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, + DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, + HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, + SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no +Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); + dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com +Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) + by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) + with ESMTP id H5hS6kzHkZSa + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Tue, 26 Apr 2022 06:39:48 +0000 (UTC) +X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 +Received: from mail-pl1-x636.google.com (mail-pl1-x636.google.com + [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::636]) + by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1207241778 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Tue, 26 Apr 2022 06:39:47 +0000 (UTC) +Received: by mail-pl1-x636.google.com with SMTP id c12so29322670plr.6 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Mon, 25 Apr 2022 23:39:47 -0700 (PDT) +DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; + h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; + bh=i+0jT8N69/pTvQ5mlBCAlemHUSU+ChBlyDZotZBOfbM=; + b=ieKkPBheDU6nE40+Rw4G56ZWQhnDlcqXOKQnztQgC8M1dizaX1SpKRd+ZjWYein2Ah + tONASlq5cd2z1YewMw9M4J7ojm4kbuWzITbhp0i+0yEQZMcOqms4ohQa4wQa/AvI1jsc + bTJm++ecd18xojpkcY5LiUsoaJjTZq1wANLV65OxhpuyNEGS/xo4Ji+uPETNdrGfIS5U + N7TNTmfeUvZPQ3ENxtn54sqKOeho+8snY6PIhpPgFbF3M8/+sT4Jmds0WL2VP8OFTXTG + Gnb5/lKYL7I3y7YqveqxeNMKHcgSG3nd0t6lJ+5EpeP/fI+pnCjh2JhDO9w+339eAbQs + Ifbw== +X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; + d=1e100.net; s=20210112; + h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date + :message-id:subject:to; + bh=i+0jT8N69/pTvQ5mlBCAlemHUSU+ChBlyDZotZBOfbM=; + b=eTS2itPK0xnfurS75ET2hKhOwRhWGVM/GZE6OrPzF2WhvoQn5HcMTgxd1W5gf5jGE0 + CPYW7W9YtGgj94p8CK9j4x93C2sWc2LrGc0l1hy/NA6HJm+hfZ5eBeaf8uBc6VSxWyW8 + MtUjE5cNL7dCJZUG39/7ttZR6PIMHvq8Af1CwGfzP7P6LqYNhLX9MGqR+PzYAImFT8Ge + jBLRReLVLzxSLuHEFicyd40lQYYDDlXCjYhpfEFFSxScK87TwifxRnTZtreaevRJ/njV + QfzVwL9oySo1J6LF2xyuw7yvEacSwMe5t5NxXOoI0sqZGEVyvdGntD5419pWx8jDW8E0 + lNMg== +X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5338MHKHIHOcwGRbdv+ak72ga/GayQDjwygjiIH7+FEczVD4Cxdq + QD9D+34Q2vIxJbzgDitGTcTPKfZ6MohgK6QlI03bGQsW +X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwy+hJ5viPl1VruMw2x3PfauLeU2IIpuhnmE6HwrLL09T38bTqCOrjUBFYqUXadxYKQkR0tHJG/Rt1S/A4QD7U= +X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:ba8e:b0:151:ed65:fda4 with SMTP id + k14-20020a170902ba8e00b00151ed65fda4mr21954650pls.127.1650955187404; Mon, 25 + Apr 2022 23:39:47 -0700 (PDT) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +References: <ddEQnfld862QINpJ03wcoqC2mNNV5Q_GmRziweKYbaUey2deOVrhtgWHhcyqlwkWd060fle-22hoiiBryYIPAW9ZsSQgozdqH2QVPgZ-5og=@protonmail.com> +In-Reply-To: <ddEQnfld862QINpJ03wcoqC2mNNV5Q_GmRziweKYbaUey2deOVrhtgWHhcyqlwkWd060fle-22hoiiBryYIPAW9ZsSQgozdqH2QVPgZ-5og=@protonmail.com> +From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> +Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 08:39:36 +0200 +Message-ID: <CAKaEYh+n7D1nDKbiysFuoGBDHzOMPaDKqZuuTJ8suYnaCPyQkA@mail.gmail.com> +To: Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@protonmail.com>, + Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007c453905dd88f5df" +X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:53:11 +0000 +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] What to expect in the next few weeks +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 06:39:50 -0000 + +--0000000000007c453905dd88f5df +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" + +On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 7:33 PM Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev < +bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: + +> If the next few weeks go how I fear they will it could get messy. If you +> care about Bitcoin's consensus rules I'd request you pay attention so you +> can make an informed view on what to run and what to support. For those of +> you who were around in 2015-2017 you'll know what to expect. The right +> outcome endured in 2017 and I'm sure the right outcome will endure here +> assuming people pay attention and listen to the individuals who were +> trusted during that period. There are always a large number of motivated +> parties who are incentivized to break nodes off from Bitcoin and may seek +> to take advantage of a contentious soft fork activation attempt. +> +> Remember that if all the information is presented to users in a clear way +> well ahead of time then they can make their own mind up. I fear that things +> will be made as convoluted as possible in a way intended to confuse and +> information will be withheld until the last minute. When in doubt it is +> generally better to rely on the status quo and tried and trusted. In this +> case that would be Bitcoin Core. Alternative releases such as those seeking +> to attempt to activate CTV or indeed those seeking to resist the activation +> of CTV really should only be considered if you are informed on exactly what +> you are running. +> +> If you are interested in the effort to resist the contentious soft fork +> activation attempt of CTV please join ##ursf on Libera IRC. +> +> Have a good weekend. Hopefully those behind this contentious soft fork +> activation attempt will see sense and we can go back to more productive +> things than resisting contentious soft forks. +> + +Thanks for raising this + +Remembering 2017 quite well, it's often characterized as small block(ers) +vs big block(ers). While that was certainly the case, I see it slightly +differently. + +I think the bigger argument of 2017 was around a network split. Splitting +the network is problematic because one or other of the split chains may +experience a hash death (without mitigating difficulty adjustment +algorithms), or the so-called "famine and feast" minority hash behaviour, +experienced on testnet, and disruptive to users + +Any proposed changes should factor in network splits as a potential risk. +Or perhaps through another lens, you could see a network split as an +attack, on a par with a 51% attack, in terms of user disruption. It may in +fact, be more potent, since we've never had a serious 51% attack, but we +have had network splits + +I do think the conversation here is MUCH better tempered than 2017. +Hopefully we can try and avoid perceptions of gate keeping and railroading, +and keep the network together, as we did back then + + +> +> -- +> Michael Folkson +> Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com +> Keybase: michaelfolkson +> PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3 +> _______________________________________________ +> bitcoin-dev mailing list +> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev +> + +--0000000000007c453905dd88f5df +Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">= +<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 7:33 PM Micha= +el Folkson via bitcoin-dev <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfou= +ndation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br></div>= +<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-= +left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"font-family= +:arial;font-size:14px">If the next few weeks go how I fear they will it cou= +ld get messy. If you care about Bitcoin's consensus rules I'd reque= +st you pay attention so you can make an informed view on what to run and wh= +at to support. For those of you who were around in 2015-2017 you'll kno= +w what to expect. The right outcome endured in 2017 and I'm sure the ri= +ght outcome will endure here assuming people pay attention and listen to th= +e individuals who were trusted during that period. There are always a large= + number of motivated parties who are incentivized to break nodes off from B= +itcoin and may seek to take advantage of a contentious soft fork activation= + attempt.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><d= +iv style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">Remember that if all the info= +rmation is presented to users in a clear way well ahead of time then they c= +an make their own mind up. I fear that things will be made as convoluted as= + possible in a way intended to confuse and information will be withheld unt= +il the last minute. When in doubt it is generally better to rely on the sta= +tus quo and tried and trusted. In this case that would be Bitcoin Core. Alt= +ernative releases such as those seeking to attempt to activate CTV or indee= +d those seeking to resist the activation of CTV really should only be consi= +dered if you are informed on exactly what you are running.</div><div style= +=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:a= +rial;font-size:14px">If you are interested in the effort to resist the cont= +entious soft fork activation attempt of CTV please join ##ursf on Libera IR= +C.</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div styl= +e=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">Have a good weekend. Hopefully those= + behind this contentious soft fork activation attempt will see sense and we= + can go back to more productive things than resisting contentious soft fork= +s.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks for raising this</div><div>= +<br></div><div>Remembering 2017 quite well, it's often characterized as= + small block(ers) vs big block(ers).=C2=A0 While that was certainly the cas= +e, I see it slightly differently.=C2=A0 <br></div><div><br></div></div><div= + class=3D"gmail_quote">I think the bigger argument of 2017 was around a net= +work split.=C2=A0 Splitting the network is problematic because one or other= + of the split chains may experience a hash death (without mitigating diffic= +ulty adjustment algorithms), or the so-called "famine and feast" = +minority hash behaviour, experienced on testnet, and disruptive to users</d= +iv><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">Any prop= +osed changes should factor in network splits as a potential risk.=C2=A0 Or = +perhaps through another lens, you could see a network split as an attack, o= +n a par with a 51% attack, in terms of user disruption.=C2=A0 It may in fac= +t, be more potent, since we've never had a serious 51% attack, but we h= +ave had network splits</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div><div class= +=3D"gmail_quote">I do think the conversation here is MUCH better tempered t= +han 2017.=C2=A0 Hopefully we can try and avoid perceptions of gate keeping = +and railroading, and keep the network together, as we did back then<br></di= +v><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu= +ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20= +4);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></= +div> +<div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"> + <div> + <div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><span style=3D"colo= +r:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;tex= +t-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px;back= +ground-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline"><span style=3D"fon= +t-family:"SFMono-Regular",Consolas,"Liberation Mono",Me= +nlo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">--<br>Michael Folks= +on<br>Email: michaelfolkson at </span></span></span><a href=3D"http://proto= +nmail.com/" style=3D"line-height:normal;text-decoration:underline;font-fami= +ly:"SFMono-Regular",Consolas,"Liberation Mono",Menlo,mo= +nospace,monospace;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-s= +pacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word= +-spacing:0px" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">protonmail.com<= +/a><span style=3D"color:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;let= +ter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap= +;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inli= +ne"><span style=3D"font-family:"SFMono-Regular",Consolas,"Li= +beration Mono",Menlo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14p= +x"> </span></span></span><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-siz= +e:14px"><span style=3D"color:rgb(38,42,51);font-style:normal;font-weight:40= +0;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre= +-wrap;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display= +:inline"><span style=3D"font-family:"SFMono-Regular",Consolas,&qu= +ot;Liberation Mono",Menlo,monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-siz= +e:14px">Keybase: michaelfolkson<br>PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 = +0159 214C FEE3</span></span></span><br></div> + </div> + + <div> + + </div> +</div> +_______________________________________________<br> +bitcoin-dev mailing list<br> +<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">= +bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br> +<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" = +rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= +man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br> +</blockquote></div></div> + +--0000000000007c453905dd88f5df-- + |