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| author | Lonero Foundation <loneroassociation@gmail.com> | 2021-03-14 22:58:45 -0400 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2021-03-15 02:59:00 +0000 |
| commit | b304059936c482653bf054c82f2bca31cc6acc73 (patch) | |
| tree | abc574bc9abe0dc7035aa701430a507b85bd4e34 | |
| parent | 111b6b2f0147f9f124dff9e66db39e4d30c39891 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-b304059936c482653bf054c82f2bca31cc6acc73.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-b304059936c482653bf054c82f2bca31cc6acc73.zip | |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining
| -rw-r--r-- | c7/0099d2f11f1ae56dfd681d9af64eb6f324643e | 637 |
1 files changed, 637 insertions, 0 deletions
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boundary="0000000000004ddf5a05bd8a6ea3" +X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 16 Mar 2021 13:22:59 +0000 +Cc: Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net>, + Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST + Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2021 02:59:00 -0000 + +--0000000000004ddf5a05bd8a6ea3 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" + +Actually disregard my last email, I realize you were replying to somebody +else instead of me. Please for proposals not related to my BIP, such as a +form of "luck chance lottery", post in a different discussion thread as to +not draw confusion. + +Best regards, Andrew + +On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 10:51 PM Lonero Foundation < +loneroassociation@gmail.com> wrote: + +> I also want to emphasize that Bitcoin's energy consumption is growing at +> an exponential rate because of complexity. That in itself is a good thing +> security-wise. However, there are limitations to the cryptography it is +> using and the efficiency it is going about mining the way it is currently +> done. +> +> Bitcoin can have this massive carbon footprint all become meaningless if +> there is better math. So far we already outpaced many of the the more +> traditional forms of cryptographic protocols Bitcoin is currently using, +> including both for its mining and key validation. The hardware specificness +> is also too limited. +> +> My proposal doesn't redesign the way Bitcoin is structured or its system, +> rather it focuses on improvement or replacing what is outdated, and making +> it more resistant to centralization, forced monopolization or an attack. +> +> On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 10:32 PM Lonero Foundation < +> loneroassociation@gmail.com> wrote: +> +>> Hi, just to clarify this isn't a trade-off on security. Infact, my +>> proposal actually increases the level of security that Bitcoin currently +>> has. There is both an efficiency and cryptography aspect to this proposal. +>> I talked about the higher levels of security a bit in my BIP, and have +>> talked to a few about energy consumption. +>> +>> Outside of consumption of energy however, is the fact that BTC can be +>> more adaptable towards a major range of hardware without disenfranchising +>> others or other major trade-offs. There is no need for BTC to specifically +>> be tailored towards ASICs if the same level of proof of work can be done +>> from other hardware sources at similar costs. The technology and level of +>> cryptography between now and when Satoshi started BTC development 14 years +>> ago is also fastly different. BTC went from you can mine lots of Bitcoin by +>> literally downloading the whitepaper, to USB miners, to ASICs to now whole +>> entire mining centers. +>> +>> This is because of complexity, but that complexity in the near future can +>> be entirely meaningless if it is vulnerable to some of the things many +>> cryptography experts are worried about. Keep in mind this is in draft mode, +>> but over time as further implementation is done, alot of the community +>> including yourself might start being impressed by the more and more +>> tangible results. +>> +>> Best regards, Andrew +>> +>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 10:02 PM Eric Martindale <eric@ericmartindale.com> +>> wrote: +>> +>>> Bitcoin's security is derived from the energy consumption of mining, so +>>> reducing the overall expenditure would be an objective decrease in +>>> resilience. As a miner, your efficiency at converting energy into +>>> hashpower is the driving factor in your profitability, so this and any +>>> other future attempts to decrease the cost of attacking Bitcoin receives a +>>> hard NACK from me. +>>> +>>> If you're concerned about missing out on the subsidy or fee revenue, +>>> grab any number of the sub-500mSAT USB miners and get access to cheap power. +>>> +>>> Sincerely, +>>> +>>> Eric Martindale, relentless maker. +>>> Founder & CEO, Fabric, Inc. <https://fabric.fm> +>>> +1 (919) 374-2020 +>>> +>>> +>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 9:41 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via +>>> bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: +>>> +>>>> Good Afternoon, +>>>> +>>>> It is obvious that something needs to be done to curtail the current +>>>> cost of mining in kWh per block. I understand proposals are rejected +>>>> because it is considered censorship and Bitcoin has a consensus to allow +>>>> anyone to mine but, since mining requires specific hardware and energy +>>>> requirements it is already a form of censorship where most on the planet +>>>> except for the top 6% I am guessing here, cannot afford to mine. Without +>>>> affecting the current algorithm, I have previously begun to explore the +>>>> process by which mining can be turned into a lottery with only authorized +>>>> payto addresses able to mine valid blocks, since transaction fees and block +>>>> rewards exist to pay the miner. It would be better even if the algorithms +>>>> are improved if there are some ways that only a subset of miners can +>>>> produce valid blocks for any given period, say for 12 months with four +>>>> groups starting three months apart to transition, and maybe limit mining to +>>>> 50 people per continent to produce valid blocks at any one time. Possibly +>>>> this requires a consortium to oversee the lottery but it is something +>>>> Bitcoin can handle themselves, and would do better to handle than to wait +>>>> for government intervention as we have seen previously in China where power +>>>> was too cheap Bitcoin was banned entirely. +>>>> +>>>> KING JAMES HRMH +>>>> Great British Empire +>>>> +>>>> Regards, +>>>> The Australian +>>>> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) +>>>> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire +>>>> MR. Damian A. James Williamson +>>>> Wills +>>>> +>>>> et al. +>>>> +>>>> +>>>> Willtech +>>>> www.willtech.com.au +>>>> www.go-overt.com +>>>> and other projects +>>>> +>>>> earn.com/willtech +>>>> linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson +>>>> +>>>> +>>>> m. 0487135719 +>>>> f. +61261470192 +>>>> +>>>> +>>>> This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this +>>>> email if misdelivered. +>>>> ------------------------------ +>>>> *From:* bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org> on +>>>> behalf of Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-dev < +>>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, 6 March 2021 3:16 AM +>>>> *To:* Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net> +>>>> *Cc:* Bitcoin Protocol Discussion < +>>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +>>>> *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST +>>>> Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining +>>>> +>>>> Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate that my +>>>> cryptography proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also tackles +>>>> problems such as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the BTC +>>>> network could be vulnerable to in the future. For sake of simplicity, I do +>>>> want to do this BIP because it tackles lots of the issues in regards to +>>>> this manner and can provide useful insight to the community. If things such +>>>> as bigger block height have been proposed as hard forks, I feel at the very +>>>> least an upgrade regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptography does at +>>>> least warrant some discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my BIP, just +>>>> let me know on the preferred format? +>>>> +>>>> Best regards, Andrew +>>>> +>>>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Lonero Foundation < +>>>> loneroassociation@gmail.com> wrote: +>>>> +>>>> Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in regards to +>>>> renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get the +>>>> most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrariness +>>>> of it, but do want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki +>>>> format on GitHub and just attach it as my proposal? +>>>> +>>>> Best regards, Andrew +>>>> +>>>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net> +>>>> wrote: +>>>> +>>>> Hi Ryan and Andrew, +>>>> +>>>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev < +>>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: +>>>> +>>>> +>>>> https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ +>>>> "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work" +>>>> on | 04 Aug 2015 +>>>> +>>>> +>>>> Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining +>>>> market will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward. It does +>>>> not prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost. +>>>> +>>>> Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities and +>>>> that we should move to other resources. I would argue that the negative +>>>> externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so the +>>>> point is likely moot. +>>>> +>>>> _______________________________________________ +>>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list +>>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev +>>>> +>>> + +--0000000000004ddf5a05bd8a6ea3 +Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"auto">Actually disregard my last email, I realize you were repl= +ying to somebody else instead of me. Please for proposals not related to my= + BIP, such as a form of "luck chance lottery", post in a differen= +t discussion thread as to not draw confusion.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><d= +iv dir=3D"auto">Best regards, Andrew</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo= +te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 10:51 PM Lo= +nero Foundation <<a href=3D"mailto:loneroassociation@gmail.com">loneroas= +sociation@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot= +e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">= +<div dir=3D"auto">I also want to emphasize that Bitcoin's energy consum= +ption is growing at an exponential rate because of complexity. That in itse= +lf is a good thing security-wise. However, there are limitations to the cry= +ptography it is using and the efficiency it is going about mining the way i= +t is currently done.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Bit= +coin can have this massive carbon footprint all become meaningless if there= + is better math. So far we already outpaced many of the the more traditiona= +l forms of cryptographic protocols Bitcoin is currently using, including bo= +th for its mining and key validation. The hardware specificness is also too= + limited.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">My proposal do= +esn't redesign the way Bitcoin is structured or its system, rather it f= +ocuses on improvement or replacing what is outdated, and making it more res= +istant to centralization, forced monopolization or an attack.</div></div><b= +r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, = +Mar 14, 2021, 10:32 PM Lonero Foundation <<a href=3D"mailto:loneroassoci= +ation@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"= +>loneroassociation@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"g= +mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l= +eft:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Hi, just to clarify this isn't a trade-off o= +n security. Infact, my proposal actually increases the level of security th= +at Bitcoin currently has. There is both an efficiency and cryptography aspe= +ct to this proposal. I talked about the higher levels of security a bit in = +my BIP, and have talked to a few about energy consumption.=C2=A0<div dir=3D= +"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Outside of consumption of energy however= +, is the fact that BTC can be more adaptable towards a major range of hardw= +are without disenfranchising others or other major trade-offs. There is no = +need for BTC to specifically be tailored towards ASICs if the same level of= + proof of work can be done from other hardware sources at similar costs. Th= +e technology and level of cryptography between now and when Satoshi started= + BTC development 14 years ago is also fastly different. BTC went from you c= +an mine lots of Bitcoin by literally downloading the whitepaper, to USB min= +ers, to ASICs to now whole entire mining centers.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"au= +to"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This is because of complexity, but that com= +plexity in the near future can be entirely meaningless if it is vulnerable = +to some of the things many cryptography experts are worried about. Keep in = +mind this is in draft mode, but over time as further implementation is done= +, alot of the community including yourself might start being impressed by t= +he more and more tangible results.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"a= +uto">Best regards, Andrew</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><= +div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 10:02 PM Eric Ma= +rtindale <<a href=3D"mailto:eric@ericmartindale.com" rel=3D"noreferrer n= +oreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">eric@ericmartindale.com<= +/a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0= + 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Bit= +coin's security is derived from the energy consumption of mining, so re= +ducing the overall expenditure would be an objective decrease in resilience= +.=C2=A0 As a miner, your efficiency at converting energy into hashpower is = +the driving factor in your profitability, so this and any other future atte= +mpts to decrease the cost of attacking Bitcoin receives a hard NACK from me= +.<br><br>If you're concerned about missing out on the subsidy=C2=A0or f= +ee revenue, grab any number of the sub-500mSAT USB miners and get access to= + cheap power.<br><br>Sincerely,<br><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" = +data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><= +div style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Hel= +vetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:19.5px">Eric Martindale,= + relentless maker.</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"= +;Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height= +:19.5px">Founder & CEO, <a href=3D"https://fabric.fm" rel=3D"noreferrer= + noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">Fabric, Inc= +.</a></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"Helvetica Ne= +ue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:19.5px">+1 (= +919) 374-2020</div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class= +=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 14, 2021= + at 9:41 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev <<a href=3D"m= +ailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer n= +oreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxf= +oundation.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty= +le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi= +ng-left:1ex"> + + + + +<div dir=3D"ltr"> +<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color= +:rgb(0,0,0)"> +</div> +<span style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal= +;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Good Afternoon,</span> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<br> +</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +It is obvious that something needs to be done to curtail the current cost o= +f mining in kWh per block. I understand proposals are rejected because it i= +s considered censorship and Bitcoin has a consensus to allow anyone to mine= + but, since mining requires specific + hardware and energy requirements it is already a form of censorship where = +most on the planet except for the top 6% I am guessing here, cannot afford = +to mine. Without affecting the current algorithm, I have previously begun t= +o explore the process by which mining + can be turned into a lottery with only authorized payto addresses able to = +mine valid blocks, since transaction fees and block rewards exist to pay th= +e miner. It would be better even if the algorithms are improved if there ar= +e some ways that only a subset of + miners can produce valid blocks for any given period, say for 12 months wi= +th four groups starting three months apart to transition, and maybe limit m= +ining to 50 people per continent to produce valid blocks at any one time. P= +ossibly this requires a consortium + to oversee the lottery but it is something Bitcoin can handle themselves, = +and would do better to handle than to wait for government intervention as w= +e have seen previously in China where power was too cheap Bitcoin was banne= +d entirely.</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<br> +</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +KING JAMES HRMH</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +Great British Empire</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<br> +</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +Regards,</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +The Australian</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +MR. Damian A. James Williamson</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +Wills</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<br> +</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +et al.</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<br> +</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +=C2=A0</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +Willtech</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<a href=3D"http://www.willtech.com.au" style=3D"color:rgb(27,106,203)" rel= +=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blan= +k">www.willtech.com.au</a></div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<a href=3D"http://www.go-overt.com" style=3D"color:rgb(27,106,203)" rel=3D"= +noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">w= +ww.go-overt.com</a></div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +and other projects</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +=C2=A0</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<a href=3D"http://earn.com/willtech" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferre= +r noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">earn.com/willtech</a></div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<a href=3D"http://linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson" rel=3D"noreferrer noref= +errer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">linkedin.com/in/d= +amianwilliamson</a></div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<br> +</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<br> +</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +m. 0487135719</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +f. +61261470192</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<br> +</div> +<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;= +text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> +<br> +</div> +<span style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal= +;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">This email does not con= +stitute a general advice. + Please disregard this email if misdelivered.</span> +<div> +<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%"> +<div id=3D"m_3853911642162521674m_6630688057299329463m_-6828153514463161395= +m_7525661998923712526m_-1266539831211111536gmail-m_-5101036930417261306divR= +plyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" face=3D"Calibri, sans= +-serif" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> bitcoin-dev <<a href=3D"mailto:bi= +tcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer n= +oreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev-bounces@list= +s.linuxfoundation.org</a>> on behalf of Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-de= +v <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noref= +errer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoi= +n-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>><br> +<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 6 March 2021 3:16 AM<br> +<b>To:</b> Devrandom <<a href=3D"mailto:c1.devrandom@niftybox.net" rel= +=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blan= +k">c1.devrandom@niftybox.net</a>><br> +<b>Cc:</b> Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@li= +sts.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer= + noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>>= +;<br> +<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST = +Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining</font> +<div>=C2=A0</div> +</div> +<div> +<div dir=3D"auto">Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate th= +at my cryptography proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also t= +ackles problems such as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the B= +TC network could be vulnerable to + in the future. For sake of simplicity, I do want to do this BIP because it= + tackles lots of the issues in regards to this manner and can provide usefu= +l insight to the community. If things such as bigger block height have been= + proposed as hard forks, I feel + at the very least an upgrade regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptogra= +phy does at least warrant some discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my= + BIP, just let me know on the preferred format? +<div dir=3D"auto"><br> +</div> +<div dir=3D"auto">Best regards, Andrew</div> +</div> +<br> +<div> +<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Lonero Foundation <<a hre= +f=3D"mailto:loneroassociation@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noref= +errer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">loneroassociation@gmail.com<= +/a>> wrote:<br> +</div> +<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204= +,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> +<div dir=3D"auto">Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in= + regards to renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to= + get the most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbit= +rariness of it, but do want to still propose + a document. Do I use the Media Wiki format on GitHub and just attach it as= + my proposal? +<div dir=3D"auto"><br> +</div> +<div dir=3D"auto">Best regards, Andrew</div> +</div> +<br> +<div> +<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom <<a href=3D"mai= +lto:c1.devrandom@niftybox.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer nore= +ferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">c1.devrandom@niftybox.net</= +a>> wrote:<br> +</div> +<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204= +,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> +<div dir=3D"auto"> +<div dir=3D"ltr"> +<div>Hi Ryan and Andrew,<br> +</div> +<br> +<div> +<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev = +<<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"norefer= +rer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noref= +errer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrot= +e:<br> +</div> +<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204= +,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> +<br> +=C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/" rel=3D"nor= +eferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer n= +oreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"> +https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/</a><br> +=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work"<br> +=C2=A0 =C2=A0 on | 04 Aug 2015<br> +<br> +</blockquote> +<div><br> +</div> +<div>Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining mar= +ket will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward.=C2=A0 It does= + not prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost.<br> +</div> +<div><br> +</div> +<div>Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities an= +d that we should move to other resources.=C2=A0 I would argue that the nega= +tive externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so = +the point is likely moot.=C2=A0</div> +<div><br> +</div> +</div> +</div> +</div> +</blockquote> +</div> +</blockquote> +</div> +</div> +</div> +</div> + +_______________________________________________<br> +bitcoin-dev mailing list<br> +<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer = +noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@= +lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br> +<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" = +rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" t= +arget=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin= +-dev</a><br> +</blockquote></div> +</blockquote></div> +</blockquote></div> +</blockquote></div> + +--0000000000004ddf5a05bd8a6ea3-- + |