diff options
| author | Johnson Lau <jl2012@xbt.hk> | 2017-05-10 00:27:40 +0800 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2017-05-09 16:27:49 +0000 |
| commit | abdeeefe8c43bbbeae6f0a32f40de7bd4c9c178b (patch) | |
| tree | 87f651d07b41c423c311cb762378aa50eeb74955 | |
| parent | f3c096ddbd8c727ff47d130da34f7986b6f13032 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-abdeeefe8c43bbbeae6f0a32f40de7bd4c9c178b.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-abdeeefe8c43bbbeae6f0a32f40de7bd4c9c178b.zip | |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Some real-world results about the current Segwit Discount
| -rw-r--r-- | 86/3c43963ca3e25f9152197609197aba99408e22 | 170 |
1 files changed, 170 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/86/3c43963ca3e25f9152197609197aba99408e22 b/86/3c43963ca3e25f9152197609197aba99408e22 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d1ef88c20 --- /dev/null +++ b/86/3c43963ca3e25f9152197609197aba99408e22 @@ -0,0 +1,170 @@ +Return-Path: <jl2012@xbt.hk> +Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org + [172.17.192.35]) + by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94D92486 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Tue, 9 May 2017 16:27:49 +0000 (UTC) +X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 +Received: from sender-of-o52.zoho.com (sender-of-o52.zoho.com [135.84.80.217]) + by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7914161 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Tue, 9 May 2017 16:27:48 +0000 (UTC) +Received: from [10.8.8.2] (119246245241.ctinets.com [119.246.245.241]) by + mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1494347264716696.4950494769296; + Tue, 9 May 2017 09:27:44 -0700 (PDT) +From: Johnson Lau <jl2012@xbt.hk> +Message-Id: <F5DCF911-5FCB-4FA7-8D42-86422CF366E8@xbt.hk> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="Apple-Mail=_BAC82F00-05E5-4D0A-9361-0EC61BDDA2F4" +Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) +Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 00:27:40 +0800 +In-Reply-To: <CAKzdR-rKQaiKF18j44HjxuHY5pcmPwsce5ab-+zGRDnxjhBQdw@mail.gmail.com> +To: Sergio Demian Lerner <sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com> +References: <CAKzdR-qojNn8OtUTPbxa0JauK9nmo2ZGm4ihKuyzsz_FAgokDw@mail.gmail.com> + <CAMBsKS_j7Lso6fHoMPkrQ7UFwKfxOERAAqL=aUF83O4CqL+iFg@mail.gmail.com> + <CAKzdR-on-w9EF+2hLjchdyHB1gj7fi4QnybA=J4Cz7yyN3KKNA@mail.gmail.com> + <7B918396-5968-4908-83C8-0F77DA8DB037@xbt.hk> + <CAKzdR-rKQaiKF18j44HjxuHY5pcmPwsce5ab-+zGRDnxjhBQdw@mail.gmail.com> +X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) +X-ZohoMailClient: External +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, + MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on + smtp1.linux-foundation.org +Cc: bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Some real-world results about the current Segwit + Discount +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 16:27:49 -0000 + + +--Apple-Mail=_BAC82F00-05E5-4D0A-9361-0EC61BDDA2F4 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset=utf-8 + +No, changing from 50% to 75% is a hardfork. (75 -> 50 is a softfork). = +Unless you make it pre-scheduled, or leave a special =E2=80=9Cbackdoor=E2=80= +=9D softfork to change the discount. + +And that would certainly reduce the max tx/s with 50% discount, also = +reduce the incentive to spend witness UTXO.=20 + +> On 10 May 2017, at 00:19, Sergio Demian Lerner = +<sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com> wrote: +>=20 +> Thanks Johnson and Hampus for the clarifications.=20 +> However, I would rather do the opposite: soft-fork to 50% now, and = +soft-fork again to 75% discount later if needed, because it doesn't = +affect the max transactions/second.=20 +>=20 +> Segwit as it is today should be activated. However if it is not before = +November, then for the next Segwit attempt I would choose a more = +conservative 50% discount. +>=20 +>=20 +>=20 +> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Johnson Lau <jl2012@xbt.hk = +<mailto:jl2012@xbt.hk>> wrote: +>=20 +> > On 9 May 2017, at 21:49, Sergio Demian Lerner via bitcoin-dev = +<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org = +<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote: +> > +> > +> > So it seems the 75% discount has been chosen with the idea that in = +the future the current transaction pattern will shift towards multisigs. = +This is not a bad idea, as it's the only direction Bitcoin can scale = +without a HF. +> > But it's a bad idea if we end up doing, for example, a 2X blocksize = +increase HF in the future. In that case it's much better to use a 50% = +witness discount, and do not make scaling risky by making the worse case = +block size 8 Mbytes, when it could have been 2*2.7=3D5.4 Mbytes. +> > +>=20 +> As we could change any parameter in a hardfork, I don=E2=80=99t think = +this has any relation with the current BIP141 proposal. We could just = +use 75% in a softfork, and change that to a different value (or = +completely redefine the definition of weight) with a hardfork later. +>=20 +>=20 +>=20 + + + +--Apple-Mail=_BAC82F00-05E5-4D0A-9361-0EC61BDDA2F4 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Content-Type: text/html; + charset=utf-8 + +<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = +charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = +-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" = +class=3D""><div class=3D"">No, changing from 50% to 75% is a hardfork. = +(75 -> 50 is a softfork). Unless you make it pre-scheduled, or leave = +a special =E2=80=9Cbackdoor=E2=80=9D softfork to change the = +discount.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">And = +that would certainly reduce the max tx/s with 50% discount, also reduce = +the incentive to spend witness UTXO. </div><br = +class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On = +10 May 2017, at 00:19, Sergio Demian Lerner <<a = +href=3D"mailto:sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com" = +class=3D"">sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br = +class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" = +class=3D"">Thanks Johnson and Hampus for the clarifications. <div = +class=3D"">However, I would rather do the opposite: soft-fork to 50% = +now, and soft-fork again to 75% discount later if needed, because it = +doesn't affect the max transactions/second. <div class=3D""><br = +class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Segwit as it is today should be = +activated. However if it is not before November, then for the next = +Segwit attempt I would choose a more conservative 50% = +discount.</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div = +class=3D""><div class=3D""><br = +class=3D""></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br = +class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 12:45 PM, = +Johnson Lau <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><<a = +href=3D"mailto:jl2012@xbt.hk" target=3D"_blank" = +class=3D"">jl2012@xbt.hk</a>></span> wrote:<br class=3D""><blockquote = +class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc = +solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br class=3D""> +> On 9 May 2017, at 21:49, Sergio Demian Lerner via bitcoin-dev = +<<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" = +class=3D"">bitcoin-dev@lists.<wbr class=3D"">linuxfoundation.org</a>> = +wrote:<br class=3D""> +><br class=3D""> +><br class=3D""> +> So it seems the 75% discount has been chosen with the idea that in = +the future the current transaction pattern will shift towards multisigs. = +This is not a bad idea, as it's the only direction Bitcoin can scale = +without a HF.<br class=3D""> +> But it's a bad idea if we end up doing, for example, a 2X blocksize = +increase HF in the future. In that case it's much better to use a 50% = +witness discount, and do not make scaling risky by making the worse case = +block size 8 Mbytes, when it could have been 2*2.7=3D5.4 Mbytes.<br = +class=3D""> +><br class=3D""> +<br class=3D""> +</span>As we could change any parameter in a hardfork, I don=E2=80=99t = +think this has any relation with the current BIP141 proposal. We could = +just use 75% in a softfork, and change that to a different value (or = +completely redefine the definition of weight) with a hardfork later.<br = +class=3D""> +<br class=3D""> +<br class=3D""> +</blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div> +</div></blockquote></div><div class=3D""><br = +class=3D""></div></body></html>= + +--Apple-Mail=_BAC82F00-05E5-4D0A-9361-0EC61BDDA2F4-- + + |