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| author | Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> | 2013-10-25 03:07:08 -0400 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2013-10-25 07:07:22 +0000 |
| commit | a8387556f2917b105b3818defee7011d76148a9a (patch) | |
| tree | 99fcbd0393991639d3c40a8be1690fc45a1d678f | |
| parent | 4b1e119dab733e32051c663c3d9f876a183c8f94 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-a8387556f2917b105b3818defee7011d76148a9a.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-a8387556f2917b105b3818defee7011d76148a9a.zip | |
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better
| -rw-r--r-- | d5/656cfd47768a6ecb54b7d60ddce916a72b88f3 | 157 |
1 files changed, 157 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/d5/656cfd47768a6ecb54b7d60ddce916a72b88f3 b/d5/656cfd47768a6ecb54b7d60ddce916a72b88f3 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ded87de3d --- /dev/null +++ b/d5/656cfd47768a6ecb54b7d60ddce916a72b88f3 @@ -0,0 +1,157 @@ +Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] + helo=mx.sourceforge.net) + by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) + (envelope-from <pete@petertodd.org>) id 1VZbUQ-0004eE-BQ + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Fri, 25 Oct 2013 07:07:22 +0000 +Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org + designates 62.13.149.82 as permitted sender) + client-ip=62.13.149.82; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org; + helo=outmail149082.authsmtp.co.uk; +Received: from outmail149082.authsmtp.co.uk ([62.13.149.82]) + by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) + id 1VZbUO-0001DK-Qo for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Fri, 25 Oct 2013 07:07:22 +0000 +Received: from mail-c237.authsmtp.com (mail-c237.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.237]) + by punt14.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id r9P77DHE000921; + Fri, 25 Oct 2013 08:07:13 +0100 (BST) +Received: from savin (76-10-178-109.dsl.teksavvy.com [76.10.178.109]) + (authenticated bits=128) + by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id r9P778PB082086 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); + Fri, 25 Oct 2013 08:07:11 +0100 (BST) +Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 03:07:08 -0400 +From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> +To: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> +Message-ID: <20131025070708.GA5760@savin> +References: <20131024143043.GA12658@savin> + <CANEZrP100Lg_1LcFMKx1yWrGTSFb5GZmLmXNbZjPGaiEgOeuwA@mail.gmail.com> + <20131024144358.GA17142@savin> + <CANEZrP1TfM+wYbGjUk3+8JJZs6cKZXdb57xGMc=hDr9dQjMMZA@mail.gmail.com> + <20131024145447.GA19949@savin> + <CABsx9T0T0v=HnRRr6BLKNQOFMBJWrhF4G4SOCJ9DidGJBB8Eow@mail.gmail.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IS0zKkzwUGydFO0o" +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <CABsx9T0T0v=HnRRr6BLKNQOFMBJWrhF4G4SOCJ9DidGJBB8Eow@mail.gmail.com> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) +X-Server-Quench: 11d2adb9-3d44-11e3-94fa-002590a135d3 +X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: + http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse +X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR + aQdMdAcUF1YAAgsB AmUbW1xeUFp7WGI7 bAxPbAVDY01GQQRq + WVdMSlVNFUsqCHwG ARZ+IBl6dQVOfjBx Y0JqVj5aXRB4JBIv + S1NXQWkCeGZhPWMC WUQOJh5UcAFPdx8U a1N6AHBDAzANdhES + HhM4ODE3eDlSNilR RRkIIFQOdA4uFz09 QR9KEzgiVUAeWyQ2 + JgAnLVhUFksNLkgo WQAA +X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1024:706 +X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) +X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 76.10.178.109/587 +X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own + anti-virus system. +X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) +X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. + See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. + -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for + sender-domain + -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record + 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. + See + http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block + for more information. [URIs: petertodd.org] +X-Headers-End: 1VZbUO-0001DK-Qo +Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 +Precedence: list +List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 07:07:22 -0000 + + +--IS0zKkzwUGydFO0o +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 06:39:34AM +1000, Gavin Andresen wrote: +> Yes, and I asked Luke what percentage of that 10% is OOB fee payments, and +> the answer is "a small percentage." +>=20 +> So: there are multiple layers of reasons why OOB fee payments will not +> screw up the fee estimation code: + +I've responded to nearly all those arguments elsewhere, but anyway... + +> And all of the above is completely orthogonal to child-pays-for-parent +> and/or replace-with-higher-fee. + +Indeed. Quoting myself here: "What we should have is both: fee +estimation with replacement so you can replace transactions in the event +that the estimate was too low." + +So on IRC you were talking about very agressive mempool expiration - as +little as a block or two before tx's are expired. Now if a tx does fail +to get mined in that short window, am I correct in saying you want a way +to modify the fee it pays and rebroadcast? In which case wallet software +and other players in the ecosystem will have to adjust to the fact that +they can expect to see relatively frequent double-spends of unconfirmed +transactions? + +As you know I've already written relaying/mempool code for +tx-replacement and replace-by-fee; it's the wallet code that's the hard +part that I haven't done. If you're already planning on changing the +wallet side of things to handle replacement-through-expiration that'd +save me a lot of hard work. You're probably better qualified to write +that code too; I'm not very familiar with the wallet. + +Worth thinking about the whole ecosystem of wallets involved; they all +have to handle double-spends gracefully to make tx replacement of any +kind user friendly. We should try to give people a heads up that this is +coming soon if that's your thinking. + + +Also, regarding tx replacement user experience: + +> Come back a few hours later and find out you need to type in your +> password again so your client can unlock your wallet, resign, and +> re-transmit with a higher fee? + +Password-using wallets sign multiple versions of the transaction in +advance of course and release the higher fee versions only later if +required. (could be applied to coinjoin too) + +--=20 +'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org +0000000000000005391e2338afe5204414d66b1f140b172da651daedf5663af2 + +--IS0zKkzwUGydFO0o +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" +Content-Description: Digital signature + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) + +iQGrBAEBCACVBQJSahibXhSAAAAAABUAQGJsb2NraGFzaEBiaXRjb2luLm9yZzAw +MDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMGQ2NmZlMjAzZTZlZWRhYmNmN2U5OTZlMGJhNmI2NzMxMzdj +MDkzMDdiNDZmNDEyOTgvFIAAAAAAFQARcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JncGV0 +ZUBwZXRlcnRvZC5vcmcACgkQJIFAPaXwkftVRgf9EPp0jaQoPtrPXuGapZ0E5UZ1 +A4BlW0oegsF6EQQJKb6cMAdyuHYFDpCfw/5+pMg8/jUkoGvc0WyG5qUscDQng+bR +4jUxps+MDoenFs+StU4W1WEyKQhtslvlultop4V3v7qWk3l8YmYJ6JzN4A6GjAGx +FXausdBx9DQmM9+ltQWLb3516k+NfLxc2xWHJcFzKhCl4erq+MaIMyAJmAQKhGwv +vjl2pyxiBWKV0EZJ6UnM/drKfssaMOtur5Ur4gZU+da+YUUthCnagsKf8upVsa+y +bgMusXdYY7D7p6ZDxSeBhnUM+BceTsR0poCMSuLvwZb+WClLB+6dR74pX2e7PA== +=bHOt +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--IS0zKkzwUGydFO0o-- + + |