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| author | Christopher Gilliard <christopher.gilliard@gmail.com> | 2021-04-16 15:33:40 +0000 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2021-04-16 15:33:55 +0000 |
| commit | a04ec04c5b47ac8ad410dbacb51c24623bf54cc2 (patch) | |
| tree | adf0066e0886d7cf957a45df9372e80ad328df6b | |
| parent | 7f89af60fe33fc6d69ef058cfd01e95900a28116 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-a04ec04c5b47ac8ad410dbacb51c24623bf54cc2.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-a04ec04c5b47ac8ad410dbacb51c24623bf54cc2.zip | |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP - limiting OP_RETURN / HF
| -rw-r--r-- | 19/aab0b45dfb2302fd6dfa4511b0e5101d02aedd | 258 |
1 files changed, 258 insertions, 0 deletions
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boundary="000000000000edb86a05c018b475" +X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:47:09 +0000 +Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP - limiting OP_RETURN / HF +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 15:33:56 -0000 + +--000000000000edb86a05c018b475 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" + +>>Maybe I missed something, but why does this change require a hard fork? + +I guess you are right that it doesn't technically require a hard fork, but +I see this proposal as more likely being merged with other hard fork or +soft fork features. It depends on which upgrades are happening at the time. +If there's a specific soft fork being proposed to merge this proposal with, +I can update it. + +>> I'm also concerned about the coordination required to get into The One +OP_RETURN Per Block, as this certainly requires some measure of +centralization of that Merkle Tree construction. + +This will be discussed further in a future BIP, but the basic idea is that +each miner can run an additional piece of software that builds the tree +structure. It's much like submitting a transaction to the network today, if +one of the miners does not accept it, another likely will. + +>> Some of those OP_RETURN outputs have non-zero value. As such, those +outputs are provably unspendable, and they are essentially paying the rest +of the coin holders via supply deflation. + +Good point, there are other ways to do proof of burn. + +>> Finally, Bitcoin nodes may safely discard OP_RETURN outputs at any time, +since they are unspendable. Thus, nodes can clear a few GB of disk space +whenever they need it, but that data is less than 1% of the total chain +size at the time of writing. + +Yes, but that doesn't affect IBD. + +On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 1:59 PM Clark Moody <clark@clarkmoody.com> wrote: + +> Maybe I missed something, but why does this change require a hard fork? +> +> You don't seem to provide any data as part of your rationale, so I'll +> provide some context. As it stands, the chain size sits around 386 GB, with +> OP_RETURN data accounting for 2.5 GB of that. +> +> I'm also concerned about the coordination required to get into The One +> OP_RETURN Per Block, as this certainly requires some measure of +> centralization of that Merkle Tree construction. +> +> Some of those OP_RETURN outputs have non-zero value. As such, those +> outputs are provably unspendable, and they are essentially paying the rest +> of the coin holders via supply deflation. +> +> Finally, Bitcoin nodes may safely discard OP_RETURN outputs at any time, +> since they are unspendable. Thus, nodes can clear a few GB of disk space +> whenever they need it, but that data is less than 1% of the total chain +> size at the time of writing. +> +> +> -Clark +> +> +> On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 8:32 AM Christopher Gilliard via bitcoin-dev < +> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: +> +>> I have created a BIP which can be found here: +>> https://github.com/cgilliard/bips/blob/notarization/bip-XXXX.mediawiki +>> +>> I'm sending this email to start the discussion regarding this proposal. +>> If there are any comments/suggestions, please let me know. +>> +>> Regards, +>> Chris +>> _______________________________________________ +>> bitcoin-dev mailing list +>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev +>> +> + +--000000000000edb86a05c018b475 +Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>>><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:t= +ahoma,sans-serif">Maybe I missed something, but why does this change requir= +e a hard fork?</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil= +y:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div>I guess you are right = +that it doesn't technically require a hard fork, but I see this proposa= +l as more likely being merged with other hard fork or soft fork features. I= +t depends on which upgrades are happening at the time. If there's a spe= +cific soft fork being proposed to merge this proposal with, I can update it= +.<br></div><div><br></div><span class=3D"gmail-im" style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,= +80)">>>=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-= +serif">I'm also concerned about the coordination required to get into T= +he One OP_RETURN Per Block, as this certainly requires some measure of cent= +ralization of that Merkle Tree construction.</span><div><br></div></span><d= +iv><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">This will= + be discussed further in a future BIP, but the basic idea is that each mine= +r can run an additional piece of software that builds the tree structure. I= +t's much like submitting a transaction to the network today, if one of = +the miners does not accept it, another likely will.</span></div><span class= +=3D"gmail-im" style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,= +0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"co= +lor:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">>>=C2=A0</span><span st= +yle=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Some of those OP_RET= +URN outputs have non-zero value. As such, those outputs are provably unspen= +dable, and they are essentially paying the rest of the coin holders via sup= +ply deflation.</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family= +:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></span></div></span><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0= +,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Good point, there are other ways to do= + proof of burn.</span></div><span class=3D"gmail-im" style=3D"color:rgb(80,= +0,80)"><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">= +<br></span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sa= +ns-serif">>>=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:= +tahoma,sans-serif">Finally, Bitcoin nodes may safely discard OP_RETURN outp= +uts at any time, since they are unspendable. Thus, nodes can clear a few GB= + of disk space whenever they need it, but that data is less than 1% of the = +total chain size at the time of writing.</span></div><div><span style=3D"co= +lor:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></span></div></span><div>= +<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Yes, but tha= +t doesn't affect IBD.</span></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">= +<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 1:59 PM Clark= + Moody <<a href=3D"mailto:clark@clarkmoody.com">clark@clarkmoody.com</a>= +> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px = +0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div= + dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-= +serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Maybe I missed something, but why d= +oes this change require a hard fork?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl= +e=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></= +div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;fon= +t-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">You don't seem to provide any data as pa= +rt of your rationale, so I'll provide some context. As it stands, the c= +hain size sits around 386 GB, with OP_RETURN data accounting for 2.5 GB of = +that.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-se= +rif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default= +" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">= +I'm also concerned about the coordination required to get into The One = +OP_RETURN Per Block, as this certainly requires some measure of centralizat= +ion of that Merkle Tree construction.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"= + style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><= +br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-seri= +f;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Some of those OP_RETURN outputs have no= +n-zero value. As such, those outputs are provably unspendable, and they are= + essentially paying the rest of the coin holders via supply deflation.</div= +><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-s= +ize:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D= +"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Finally, B= +itcoin nodes may safely discard OP_RETURN outputs at any time, since they a= +re unspendable. Thus, nodes can clear a few GB of disk space whenever they = +need it, but that data is less than 1% of the total chain size at the time = +of writing.<br></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div><br></div><d= +iv>-Clark</div><div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo= +te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 8:32 AM C= +hristopher Gilliard via bitcoin-dev <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists= +.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.o= +rg</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi= +n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex= +"><div dir=3D"ltr">I have created a BIP which can be found here:=C2=A0<a hr= +ef=3D"https://github.com/cgilliard/bips/blob/notarization/bip-XXXX.mediawik= +i" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/cgilliard/bips/blob/notarization/bi= +p-XXXX.mediawiki</a><div><br></div><div>I'm sending this email to start= + the discussion regarding this proposal. If there are any comments/suggesti= +ons, please let me know.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Chris<= +/div></div> +_______________________________________________<br> +bitcoin-dev mailing list<br> +<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">= +bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br> +<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" = +rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= +man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br> +</blockquote></div> +</blockquote></div> + +--000000000000edb86a05c018b475-- + |