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| author | Alex Kotenko <alexykot@gmail.com> | 2014-05-19 14:50:34 +0100 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2014-05-19 13:51:24 +0000 |
| commit | 9386b402e7eebbd8475edb23cb02060d43c81a21 (patch) | |
| tree | dbead89d6c79cd493fe5186850fe15340e2929d8 | |
| parent | c54f900edd88bb24074d8fb74ff585dd171c1d9b (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-9386b402e7eebbd8475edb23cb02060d43c81a21.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-9386b402e7eebbd8475edb23cb02060d43c81a21.zip | |
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Paper Currency
| -rw-r--r-- | 24/fa6b4b9685e6401a777f0f9be24709f9f2eaeb | 226 |
1 files changed, 226 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/24/fa6b4b9685e6401a777f0f9be24709f9f2eaeb b/24/fa6b4b9685e6401a777f0f9be24709f9f2eaeb new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c0bc781b5 --- /dev/null +++ b/24/fa6b4b9685e6401a777f0f9be24709f9f2eaeb @@ -0,0 +1,226 @@ +Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] + helo=mx.sourceforge.net) + by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) + (envelope-from <alexy.kot.all@gmail.com>) id 1WmNyO-0000fX-Pc + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Mon, 19 May 2014 13:51:24 +0000 +Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com + designates 209.85.128.174 as permitted sender) + client-ip=209.85.128.174; envelope-from=alexy.kot.all@gmail.com; + helo=mail-ve0-f174.google.com; +Received: from mail-ve0-f174.google.com ([209.85.128.174]) + by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) + (Exim 4.76) id 1WmNyM-0005BH-RJ + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Mon, 19 May 2014 13:51:24 +0000 +Received: by mail-ve0-f174.google.com with SMTP id jw12so6363272veb.5 + for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>; + Mon, 19 May 2014 06:51:17 -0700 (PDT) +X-Received: by 10.58.89.242 with SMTP id br18mr257150veb.66.1400507477141; + Mon, 19 May 2014 06:51:17 -0700 (PDT) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Sender: alexy.kot.all@gmail.com +Received: by 10.58.211.135 with HTTP; Mon, 19 May 2014 06:50:34 -0700 (PDT) +In-Reply-To: <CANg-TZAFdmPBj_+U=jbhP_t9Gb-yZ-8LMtGzj+6ub=qWcLP0UQ@mail.gmail.com> +References: <BAY173-W1475F72C70BC089A82C20FCC300@phx.gbl> + <5377892C.8080402@gmail.com> + <CAAS2fgS-Ewj3T0-d=h7ET9dCz3+NPPYVOLDWd7T7oYY95x-sUA@mail.gmail.com> + <CALDj+Bbsb6JiLabTBx21k02dDvnmZZDCXmJ2mnh7DngBon202w@mail.gmail.com> + <lla87r$l7j$1@ger.gmane.org> + <CALDj+BaQ5sn9_=KAmNUUbmDva2g3mabm_wmcL_gibLyci5zFUQ@mail.gmail.com> + <CANg-TZAFdmPBj_+U=jbhP_t9Gb-yZ-8LMtGzj+6ub=qWcLP0UQ@mail.gmail.com> +From: Alex Kotenko <alexykot@gmail.com> +Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 14:50:34 +0100 +X-Google-Sender-Auth: jIZt-8z96Bcnd9tgl7U06aQAS-o +Message-ID: <CALDj+BYoP9=13b4=jLCBjEwectY-+pp3Y1wMAP4z=ydEoTM5Nw@mail.gmail.com> +To: Brooks Boyd <boydb@midnightdesign.ws> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b471fb0ae2e5704f9c10eea +X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) +X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. + See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. + -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for + sender-domain + 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider + (alexy.kot.all[at]gmail.com) + -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record + 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message + 0.3 HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD BODY: HTML font face is not a word + -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from + author's domain + 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, + not necessarily valid + -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature +X-Headers-End: 1WmNyM-0005BH-RJ +Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Paper Currency +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 +Precedence: list +List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 13:51:25 -0000 + +--047d7b471fb0ae2e5704f9c10eea +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 + +Asking random ignorant stranger to care to protect themselves never works. +We need solution that requires strictly zero effort. + + +Best regards, +Alex Kotenko + + +2014-05-19 14:06 GMT+01:00 Brooks Boyd <boydb@midnightdesign.ws>: + +> >> 2014-05-18 13:14 GMT+01:00 Andreas Schildbach <andreas@schildbach.de>: +> >> One problem we couldn't figure out here though - how to protect the +> >> notes from unauthorized redeem. Like if someone else tries to reach your +> >> wallet with his own NFC - how can we distinguish between deliberate +> >> redeem by owner and fraudulent redeem by anybody else with custom built +> >> long range NFC antenna? Any ideas? +> >> +> >> I think you'd need multiple factors to protect against that attack. Like +> >> encrypting with a key that is printed on the note as an QR code. +> > +> >On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Alex Kotenko <alexykot@gmail.com> wrote: +> > +> > Yes, but it must not sacrifice usability. It's paper money, people are +> used to it and they have rather high standard of expectations in this area. +> Any usbility sacrifices in this area result into failure of the whole thing. +> > +> > Best regards, +> > Alex Kotenko +> +> One thought I had reading through this exchange: I think the general +> public is becoming more aware of the "hacker with a long range +> antenna" sort of attack, since credit cards are getting microchips +> that can be scanned. There's a few videos I've seen of white hat +> hackers demonstrating how a suitcase-sized apparatus carried by +> someone walking down the street can scan and make charges on cards in +> people's pockets as the attacker brushes past. Hence RFID-blocking +> sleeves/wallets are on the market, such that your smart credit card +> can't make a purchase while its in your wallet. Is a RFID-blocking +> wallet also NFC-blocking? Irregardless of whatever "future cash" you +> choose to carry (be it credit card or bitcoin card/coin/cash), perhaps +> its the wallet/purse that needs an upgrade, to ensure your money +> doesn't spend itself while its in your pocket, but you can easily +> remove it and spend it conveniently? +> +> Brooks +> +> +> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ +> "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE +> Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. +> Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform +> available +> Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free." +> http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs +> _______________________________________________ +> Bitcoin-development mailing list +> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development +> + +--047d7b471fb0ae2e5704f9c10eea +Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier = +new,monospace;color:#003300">Asking random ignorant stranger to care to pro= +tect themselves never works. We need solution that requires strictly zero e= +ffort.</div> + +<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear= +=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,51,0);font-family= +:'courier new',monospace">Best regards,=C2=A0</span><div><div><div = +style=3D"text-align:left"> + +<font color=3D"#003300" face=3D"'courier new', monospace" style=3D"= +text-align:-webkit-auto">Alex Kotenko</font></div></div></div></div></div> +<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-05-19 14:06 GMT+01:00 Brooks Boyd <= +span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:boydb@midnightdesign.ws" target=3D"_= +blank">boydb@midnightdesign.ws</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai= +l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left= +:1ex"> + +<div class=3D"">>> 2014-05-18 13:14 GMT+01:00 Andreas Schildbach <= +<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@schildbach.de">andreas@schildbach.de</a>>:<br> +>> One problem we couldn't figure out here though - how to protec= +t the<br> +>> notes from unauthorized redeem. Like if someone else tries to reac= +h your<br> +>> wallet with his own NFC - how can we distinguish between deliberat= +e<br> +>> redeem by owner and fraudulent redeem by anybody else with custom = +built<br> +>> long range NFC antenna? Any ideas?<br> +>><br> +>> I think you'd need multiple factors to protect against that at= +tack. Like<br> +>> encrypting with a key that is printed on the note as an QR code.<b= +r> +><br> +</div><div class=3D"">>On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Alex Kotenko <= +;<a href=3D"mailto:alexykot@gmail.com">alexykot@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br= +> +><br> +> Yes, but it must not sacrifice usability. It's paper money, people= + are used to it and they have rather high standard of expectations in this = +area. Any usbility sacrifices in this area result into failure of the whole= + thing.<br> + + +><br> +> Best regards,<br> +> Alex Kotenko<br> +<br> +</div>One thought I had reading through this exchange: I think the general<= +br> +public is becoming more aware of the "hacker with a long range<br> +antenna" sort of attack, since credit cards are getting microchips<br> +that can be scanned. There's a few videos I've seen of white hat<br= +> +hackers demonstrating how a suitcase-sized apparatus carried by<br> +someone walking down the street can scan and make charges on cards in<br> +people's pockets as the attacker brushes past. Hence RFID-blocking<br> +sleeves/wallets are on the market, such that your smart credit card<br> +can't make a purchase while its in your wallet. Is a RFID-blocking<br> +wallet also NFC-blocking? Irregardless of whatever "future cash" = +you<br> +choose to carry (be it credit card or bitcoin card/coin/cash), perhaps<br> +its the wallet/purse that needs an upgrade, to ensure your money<br> +doesn't spend itself while its in your pocket, but you can easily<br> +remove it and spend it conveniently?<br> +<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br> +Brooks<br> +</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br> +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +---<br> +"Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE= +<br> +Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos.<br> +Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform availa= +ble<br> +Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free."<br> +<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net= +/sfu/SauceLabs</a><br> +_______________________________________________<br> +Bitcoin-development mailing list<br> +<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo= +pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br> +<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development= +" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= +velopment</a><br> +</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div> + +--047d7b471fb0ae2e5704f9c10eea-- + + |