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authorChristian Decker <decker.christian@gmail.com>2011-08-05 14:58:53 +0200
committerbitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>2011-08-05 12:59:39 +0000
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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Blitcoin? (Black Hat 2011)
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+From: Christian Decker <decker.christian@gmail.com>
+Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 14:58:53 +0200
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+Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Blitcoin? (Black Hat 2011)
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+--00504502cc3438e69f04a9c1ab69
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+
+While I do think that anonymity (or pseudonymity) is a nice feature, I don't
+think it deserves the full focus of the developers. The core of the protocol
+is about making transactions in a secure and fast way, not allowing
+everybody to be anonymous, whether they want to or not. TOR already is a
+good options for those that want to stay anonymous, and there is no need to
+pull support into the main client, if only a few will use it. I think very
+few of the developers actually claimed that Bitcoin is anonymous, and has
+never been a big advertising point from the "official" side of Bitcoin,
+network analysis has been always known to break anonymity.
+
+I see no need for action from the developer side.
+
+-cdecker
+
+On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Joel Joonatan Kaartinen <
+joel.kaartinen@gmail.com> wrote:
+
+> On Fri, 2011-08-05 at 01:52 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
+> > Yes, that is correct. Bitcoin resends wallet transactions with zero
+> > confirmations, and both sent and received transactions fall within the
+> > "wallet tx" superset.
+> >
+> > TBH I had forgotten about the resend on the receiver side, though.
+> > It, of course, makes plenty of sense in the context of importing
+> > transactions from foreign sources, e.g. receiving transactions via a
+> > USB flash drive.
+>
+> Could every node do the resends? Alternatively, could we implement a TOR
+> like tunneling system just for the first leg of the transactions
+> (overkill?). Then again, maybe just a TOR gateway if that's desired.
+>
+> > > Drawok's suggestion about using UDP packets with spoofed sender
+> addresses is
+> > > interesting, as UDP has another advantage; you can open up an "inbound"
+> UDP
+> > > port on almost any NAT router without any UPNP magic: just send out an
+> UDP
+> > > packet, the router will wait a certain time for answers (on a mapped
+> port
+> > > number) and relay these back.
+>
+> This is a nice idea but sounds rather unreliable.
+>
+> > Well, it -is- possible to implement TCP over UDP <grin> The TCP
+> > connection sequence over UDP helps to work against spoofing, while UDP
+> > helps to open an inbound UDP port as you describe.
+>
+> There's already an implementation of this, called UTP. If we do decide
+> that using UDP is worthwhile, this library is probably better than
+> implementing something ourselves.
+>
+> - Joel
+>
+>
+>
+>
+> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+> BlackBerry&reg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA
+> The must-attend event for mobile developers. Connect with experts.
+> Get tools for creating Super Apps. See the latest technologies.
+> Sessions, hands-on labs, demos & much more. Register early & save!
+> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-blackberry-1
+> _______________________________________________
+> Bitcoin-development mailing list
+> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
+> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
+>
+
+--00504502cc3438e69f04a9c1ab69
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+While I do think that anonymity (or pseudonymity) is a nice feature, I don&=
+#39;t think it deserves the full focus of the developers. The core of the p=
+rotocol is about making transactions in a secure and fast way, not allowing=
+ everybody to be anonymous, whether they want to or not. TOR already is a g=
+ood options for those that want to stay anonymous, and there is no need to =
+pull support into the main client, if only a few will use it. I think very =
+few of the developers actually claimed that Bitcoin is anonymous, and has n=
+ever been a big advertising point from the &quot;official&quot; side of Bit=
+coin, network analysis has been always known to break anonymity.<br>
+
+<br>I see no need for action from the developer side.<br><br>-cdecker<br><b=
+r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Joel Joonatan =
+Kaartinen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:joel.kaartinen@gmail.com"=
+>joel.kaartinen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
+
+<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
+x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class=3D"im">On Fri, 2011-08-05 at 01:=
+52 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:<br>
+&gt; Yes, that is correct. =A0Bitcoin resends wallet transactions with zero=
+<br>
+&gt; confirmations, and both sent and received transactions fall within the=
+<br>
+&gt; &quot;wallet tx&quot; superset.<br>
+&gt;<br>
+&gt; TBH I had forgotten about the resend on the receiver side, though.<br>
+&gt; It, of course, makes plenty of sense in the context of importing<br>
+&gt; transactions from foreign sources, e.g. receiving transactions via a<b=
+r>
+&gt; USB flash drive.<br>
+<br>
+</div>Could every node do the resends? Alternatively, could we implement a =
+TOR<br>
+like tunneling system just for the first leg of the transactions<br>
+(overkill?). Then again, maybe just a TOR gateway if that&#39;s desired.<br=
+>
+<div class=3D"im"><br>
+&gt; &gt; Drawok&#39;s suggestion about using UDP packets with spoofed send=
+er addresses is<br>
+&gt; &gt; interesting, as UDP has another advantage; you can open up an &qu=
+ot;inbound&quot; UDP<br>
+&gt; &gt; port on almost any NAT router without any UPNP magic: just send o=
+ut an UDP<br>
+&gt; &gt; packet, the router will wait a certain time for answers (on a map=
+ped port<br>
+&gt; &gt; number) and relay these back.<br>
+<br>
+</div>This is a nice idea but sounds rather unreliable.<br>
+<div class=3D"im"><br>
+&gt; Well, it -is- possible to implement TCP over UDP &lt;grin&gt; =A0The T=
+CP<br>
+&gt; connection sequence over UDP helps to work against spoofing, while UDP=
+<br>
+&gt; helps to open an inbound UDP port as you describe.<br>
+<br>
+</div>There&#39;s already an implementation of this, called UTP. If we do d=
+ecide<br>
+that using UDP is worthwhile, this library is probably better than<br>
+implementing something ourselves.<br>
+<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
+- Joel<br>
+</font><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
+<br>
+<br>
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
+---<br>
+BlackBerry&amp;reg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA<br>
+The must-attend event for mobile developers. Connect with experts.<br>
+Get tools for creating Super Apps. See the latest technologies.<br>
+Sessions, hands-on labs, demos &amp; much more. Register early &amp; save!<=
+br>
+<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-blackberry-1" target=3D"_blank">http://p=
+.sf.net/sfu/rim-blackberry-1</a><br>
+_______________________________________________<br>
+Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
+<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
+pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
+<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
+" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
+velopment</a><br>
+</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
+
+--00504502cc3438e69f04a9c1ab69--
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