+Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192]

+ helo=mx.sourceforge.net)

+ by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)

+ (envelope-from <raystonn@hotmail.com>) id 1Yy1mj-0004O5-DJ

+ for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;

+ Thu, 28 May 2015 17:40:01 +0000

+Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of hotmail.com

+ designates 65.55.34.209 as permitted sender)

+ client-ip=65.55.34.209; envelope-from=raystonn@hotmail.com;

+ helo=COL004-OMC4S7.hotmail.com;

+Received: from col004-omc4s7.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.209])

+ by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256)

+ (Exim 4.76) id 1Yy1mi-0002na-6B

+ for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;

+ Thu, 28 May 2015 17:40:01 +0000

+Received: from COL131-DS24 ([65.55.34.201]) by COL004-OMC4S7.hotmail.com over

+ TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751);

+ Thu, 28 May 2015 10:39:54 -0700

+X-TMN: [VTljWkv8VaUkXd9N5IQmlOSDcxTLbGV3]

+X-Originating-Email: [raystonn@hotmail.com]

+Message-ID: <COL131-DS24FC87C7C6622E23F5EF58CDCA0@phx.gbl>

+From: "Raystonn ." <raystonn@hotmail.com>

+To: "Gavin Andresen" <gavinandresen@gmail.com>, "Mike Hearn" <mike@plan99.net>

+References: <16096345.A1MpJQQkRW@crushinator><CABsx9T3-zxCAagAS0megd06xvG5n-3tUL9NUK9TT3vt7XNL9Tg@mail.gmail.com><CANEZrP3VCaFsW4+gPm2kCJ9z7oVUZYVaeNf=_cJWEWwh4ZxiPQ@mail.gmail.com>

+ <CABsx9T21zjHyO-nh1aSBM3z4Bg015O0rOfYq7=Sy4mf=QxUVQA@mail.gmail.com>

+In-Reply-To: <CABsx9T21zjHyO-nh1aSBM3z4Bg015O0rOfYq7=Sy4mf=QxUVQA@mail.gmail.com>

+Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 10:39:29 -0700

+MIME-Version: 1.0

+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

+ boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006C_01D09932.93B6F540"

+X-Priority: 3

+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal

+Importance: Normal

+X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308

+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3555.308

+X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 May 2015 17:39:54.0567 (UTC)

+ FILETIME=[4EC39570:01D0996D]

+X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+)

+X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.

+ See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.

+ -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for

+ sender-domain

+ 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider

+ (raystonn[at]hotmail.com)

+ -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay

+ domain

+ -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record

+ -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/,

+ no trust [65.55.34.209 listed in list.dnswl.org]

+ 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message

+ 1.0 FREEMAIL_REPLY From and body contain different freemails

+ 1.0 AWL AWL: Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address

+X-Headers-End: 1Yy1mi-0002na-6B

+Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>

+Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB

+ stepfunction

+X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net

+X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9

+Precedence: list

+List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>

+List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,

+ <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>

+List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>

+List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>

+List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>

+List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,

+ <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>

+X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 17:40:01 -0000

+

+------=_NextPart_000_006C_01D09932.93B6F540

+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

+

+I agree that developers should avoid imposing economic policy. It is =

+dangerous for Bitcoin and the core developers themselves to become such =

+a central point of attack for those wishing to disrupt Bitcoin. My =

+opinion is these things are better left to a decentralized free market =

+anyhow.

+

+

+From: Gavin Andresen=20

+Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 10:19 AM

+To: Mike Hearn=20

+Cc: Bitcoin Dev=20

+Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB =

+stepfunction

+

+On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:

+

+ Isn't that a step backwards, then? I see no reason for fee pressure =

+to exist at the moment. All it's doing is turning away users for no =

+purpose: mining isn't supported by fees, and the tiny fees we use right =

+now seem to be good enough to stop penny flooding.

+

+

+ Why not set the max size to be 20x the average size? Why 2x, given you =

+just pointed out that'd result in blocks shrinking rather than growing.

+

+Twenty is scary.

+

+And two is a very neutral number: if 50% of hashpower want the max size =

+to grow as fast as possible and 50% are dead-set opposed to any increase =

+in max size, then half produce blocks 2 times as big, half produce empty =

+blocks, and the max size doesn't change. If it was 20, then a small =

+minority of miners could force a max size increase. (if it is less than =

+2, then a minority of minors can force the block size down)

+

+

+As for whether there "should" be fee pressure now or not: I have no =

+opinion, besides "we should make block propagation faster so there is no =

+technical reason for miners to produce tiny blocks." I don't think us =

+developers should be deciding things like whether or not fees are too =

+high, too low, .....

+

+--=20

+

+--

+Gavin Andresen

+

+

+

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------=

+-------

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------=

+-----

+

+

+

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------=

+-------

+_______________________________________________

+Bitcoin-development mailing list

+Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net

+https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development

+

+------=_NextPart_000_006C_01D09932.93B6F540

+Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"

+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

+

+<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>

+<BODY dir=3Dltr>

+<DIV dir=3Dltr>

+<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial'; COLOR: #000000">

+<DIV>I agree that developers should avoid imposing economic =

+policy.&nbsp; It is=20

+dangerous for Bitcoin and the core developers themselves to become such =

+a=20

+central point of attack for those wishing to disrupt Bitcoin.&nbsp; My =

+opinion=20

+is these things are better left to a decentralized free market =

+anyhow.</DIV>

+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

+<DIV=20

+style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =

+"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =

+DISPLAY: inline'>

+<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt tahoma">

+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

+<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">

+<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A =

+title=3Dgavinandresen@gmail.com=20

+href=3D"mailto:gavinandresen@gmail.com">Gavin Andresen</A> </DIV>

+<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 28, 2015 10:19 AM</DIV>

+<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dmike@plan99.net =

+href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net">Mike=20

+Hearn</A> </DIV>

+<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dbitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net=20

+href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin =

+Dev</A> </DIV>

+<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to =

+the 20MB=20

+stepfunction</DIV></DIV></DIV>

+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>

+<DIV=20

+style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =

+"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =

+DISPLAY: inline'>

+<DIV dir=3Dltr>

+<DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>

+<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Mike Hearn =

+<SPAN=20

+dir=3Dltr>&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net"=20

+target=3D_blank>mike@plan99.net</A>&gt;</SPAN> wrote:<BR>

+<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20

+style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc =

+1px solid">

+ <DIV dir=3Dltr>

+ <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>

+ <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>

+ <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20

+ style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =

+#ccc 1px solid">

+ <DIV dir=3Dltr>

+ <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>

+ <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>

+ <DIV>Isn't that a step backwards, then? I see no reason for fee =

+pressure to=20

+ exist at the moment. All it's doing is turning away users for no =

+purpose:=20

+ mining isn't supported by fees, and the tiny fees we use right now =

+seem to=20

+ be good enough to stop penny=20

+flooding.<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

+ <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

+ <DIV>Why not set the max size to be 20x the average size? Why 2x, =

+given you=20

+ just pointed out that'd result in blocks shrinking rather than=20

+ growing.</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>Twenty is =

+scary.</DIV>

+<DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>&nbsp;</DIV>

+<DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>And two is a very neutral number: if 50% of =

+hashpower=20

+want the max size to grow as fast as possible and 50% are dead-set =

+opposed to=20

+any increase in max size, then half produce blocks 2 times as big, half =

+produce=20

+empty blocks, and the max size doesn't change. If it was 20, then a =

+small=20

+minority of miners could force a max size increase.&nbsp; (if it is less =

+than 2,=20

+then a minority of minors can force the block size down)</DIV>

+<DIV class=3Dgmail_extra>

+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

+<DIV>As for whether there "should" be fee pressure now or not: I have no =

+

+opinion, besides "we should make block propagation faster so there is no =

+

+technical reason for miners to produce tiny blocks." I don't think us =

+developers=20

+should be deciding things like whether or not fees are too high, too =

+low,=20

+.....</DIV>

+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>-- <BR>

+<DIV class=3Dgmail_signature>--<BR>Gavin Andresen<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV>

+<P>

+<HR>

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------=

+-----<BR>

+<P>

+<HR>

+_______________________________________________<BR>Bitcoin-development =

+mailing=20

+list<BR>Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net<BR>https://lists.source=

+forge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY>=

+</HTML>

+

+------=_NextPart_000_006C_01D09932.93B6F540--

+

+