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| author | Nagaev Boris <bnagaev@gmail.com> | 2023-12-30 00:20:37 -0300 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2023-12-30 03:21:16 +0000 |
| commit | 7f62319ed6e57a126fec7029350e69e5db45bab1 (patch) | |
| tree | f7aeb42dac209d5eed560805a3b3e448fa9fa511 | |
| parent | c690c219a9d9dda93f5c0fe4a481e46209496e45 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-7f62319ed6e57a126fec7029350e69e5db45bab1.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-7f62319ed6e57a126fec7029350e69e5db45bab1.zip | |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Lightning Safely With Feerate-Dependent Timelocks
| -rw-r--r-- | 0b/339b27853b576fcf5614e47494813917b22a72 | 135 |
1 files changed, 135 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/0b/339b27853b576fcf5614e47494813917b22a72 b/0b/339b27853b576fcf5614e47494813917b22a72 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..64eee949e --- /dev/null +++ b/0b/339b27853b576fcf5614e47494813917b22a72 @@ -0,0 +1,135 @@ +Return-Path: <bnagaev@gmail.com> +Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133]) + by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFBCAC0037 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Sat, 30 Dec 2023 03:21:16 +0000 (UTC) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A640140111 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Sat, 30 Dec 2023 03:21:16 +0000 (UTC) +DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org A640140111 +Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org; + dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com + header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 header.b=e1Za/I1F +X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org +X-Spam-Flag: NO +X-Spam-Score: -2.099 +X-Spam-Level: +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 + tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, + DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, + RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] + autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no +Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) + by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) + with ESMTP id BRFiIRaETHEo + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Sat, 30 Dec 2023 03:21:15 +0000 (UTC) +Received: from mail-il1-x132.google.com (mail-il1-x132.google.com + [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::132]) + by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F2D6400BA + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Sat, 30 Dec 2023 03:21:15 +0000 (UTC) +DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 9F2D6400BA +Received: by mail-il1-x132.google.com with SMTP id + e9e14a558f8ab-35fcd6f8aa6so28474035ab.0 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Fri, 29 Dec 2023 19:21:15 -0800 (PST) +DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; + d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1703906474; x=1704511274; + darn=lists.linuxfoundation.org; + h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from + :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date + :message-id:reply-to; + bh=cFGNTPGksVZkcc66XgtXMLuWb3MGrstPSzCucVHMO8Y=; + b=e1Za/I1FzGlVp860FBW87wM/N5pcAHVZoe0OJbIxgZc6c4wvrA/YzaAetSHCNIahkC + yOBudf4qH0WOJl4B4lcXPh7QVTANnzQLmgzPS5RB49dqVaooPpkveBvQdZT84DDKqTyD + zrbckouMszcv6CA3+H3rlPCgGQAkOr4iE59FQ9PTxzfX89yGTG0H82aLeC39euIAjWZZ + NHUyYsCJnZcFJX3s6BCH4Nis/fgE4xLEsCbbwSj4nRfba5v0td3MqzaEEDyYImh0tFc6 + j61Lf+7zpW/p4WVIZ+Nfc8NONqcSfU0AcASn+lxEWsMGq5vH0raZwDQpObPpEvKQ6Eof + wnyA== +X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; + d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1703906474; x=1704511274; + h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from + :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc + :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; + bh=cFGNTPGksVZkcc66XgtXMLuWb3MGrstPSzCucVHMO8Y=; + b=OwZbdQHlnxj7G3clGKPAm4Zx7PLcBxTZc+/ECsDsAXcv1gVVWEe5CnEtHQ0Nm+rvtF + FGg66RVagBXNin4dEMT9zRyCwNkwEKIOsmjxAWR/1ynN/8o6iZqNGpSXrv/8hERLTeFR + R24/JXbbMu9x1D/za/v8ElSIBOOCGurTvDv9ja6Vg2bNWr3GFD9dYDBW+1xLLQW4Xkue + TXCilmXPlnuDp1md6riaUBtBoJ/j7e084CsBcm/T9bIMM+we6eRfe2wiXsSKDzBIEdNr + LXEgL0ql4l/i09dUJV2DZKSxzzeXAq8dcvHY+sGCJ8+lCMIT9pFKC43x6Tm6TDa+CNW7 + IQ1g== +X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz6TjcjdLtkRu/YJwm7U2GFI5TCoHuxaEla2kJhBVqFOBQtPOMe + q8U7rsDYQqlmMcho1YHM4gwNPCjTIjkmtmuA9FH0Ff00Sq2Qqg== +X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEtSNRXMxKouA30vYlztzGuQExkKj1+C3YFAkGygsyjFZr1KVczFt4hItYz2e2q/HjJSrPT4RwxJrniYSPQjEQ= +X-Received: by 2002:a92:c24b:0:b0:35f:87ac:10d4 with SMTP id + k11-20020a92c24b000000b0035f87ac10d4mr15763249ilo.5.1703906474601; Fri, 29 + Dec 2023 19:21:14 -0800 (PST) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +References: <dkAxjJIFndwa9WN8Hgrp92I3l3IH0SGRhheMntDfaaDjGTOOnv0s8zIivWE0yiHhh9ty0TQ_IUvkg9Zrs2KFjdSoH1_DrvCymhxA9hF-6Ko=@protonmail.com> + <8656E5B3-EDC7-4C00-93AB-C61AC6C22563@voskuil.org> + <786297315b27fdecc1a21cc40ef4b993@dtrt.org> + <CAFC_Vt6yk2MwkUhiBKyGmOArVrU9VCdf27qR8wDMMOz_ONjt=A@mail.gmail.com> + <7b210ceabf8f5f4b58b2f6b68e6a7037@dtrt.org> +In-Reply-To: <7b210ceabf8f5f4b58b2f6b68e6a7037@dtrt.org> +From: Nagaev Boris <bnagaev@gmail.com> +Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 00:20:37 -0300 +Message-ID: <CAFC_Vt5iEvCMgUGAEgSYdd2CByR3Q3M=9tf8Uz7TK1oCPHXRvA@mail.gmail.com> +To: "David A. Harding" <dave@dtrt.org> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 15:58:26 +0000 +Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Lightning Safely With Feerate-Dependent + Timelocks +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2023 03:21:17 -0000 + +On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 12:11=E2=80=AFAM David A. Harding <dave@dtrt.org> w= +rote: +> +> On 2023-12-29 15:17, Nagaev Boris wrote: +> > Feerate-Dependent Timelocks do create incentives to accept out-of-band +> > fees to decrease in-band fees and speed up mining of transactions +> > using FDT! Miners can make a 5% discount on fees paid out-of-band and +> > many people will use it. Observed fees decrease and FDT transactions +> > mature faster. It is beneficial for both parties involved: senders of +> > transactions save 5% on fees, miners get FDT transactions mined faster +> > and get more profits (for the sake of example more than 5%). +> +> Hi Nagaev, +> +> That's an interesting idea, but I don't think that it works due to the +> free rider problem: miner Alice offers a 5% discount on fees paid out of +> band now in the hopes of collecting more than 5% in extra fees later due +> to increased urgency from users that depended on FDTs. However, +> sometimes the person who actually collects extra fees is miner Bob who +> never offered a 5% discount. By not offering a discount, Bob earns more +> money on average per block than Alice (all other things being equal), +> eventually forcing her to stop offering the discount or to leave the +> market. +> +> Additionally, if nearly everyone was paying discounted fees out of band, +> participants in contract protocols using FDTs would know to use +> proportionally higher FDT amounts (e.g. 5% over their actual desired +> fee), negating the benefit to miners of offering discounted fees. +> +> -Dave + +Good points. It makes sense! + +--=20 +Best regards, +Boris Nagaev + |