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author | Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org> | 2019-07-05 18:46:45 -0700 |
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committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2019-07-06 01:46:48 +0000 |
commit | 7ef544de91c31485b42eb2350efc70f6107d66c5 (patch) | |
tree | cf0c16dfa6988413b4c56044f3d6997ef66df1b4 | |
parent | b6208af270d8c9765ad3cbd2784924cd33ec7f1c (diff) | |
download | pi-bitcoindev-7ef544de91c31485b42eb2350efc70f6107d66c5.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-7ef544de91c31485b42eb2350efc70f6107d66c5.zip |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable riskless or risky lending, prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve
-rw-r--r-- | 22/197db24b2d3b2c25f146cc76773f96ef72df7f | 177 |
1 files changed, 177 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/22/197db24b2d3b2c25f146cc76773f96ef72df7f b/22/197db24b2d3b2c25f146cc76773f96ef72df7f new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e85d3a0da --- /dev/null +++ b/22/197db24b2d3b2c25f146cc76773f96ef72df7f @@ -0,0 +1,177 @@ +Return-Path: <eric@voskuil.org> +Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org + [172.17.192.35]) + by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 205A91621 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Sat, 6 Jul 2019 01:46:48 +0000 (UTC) +X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 +Received: from mail-pg1-f196.google.com (mail-pg1-f196.google.com + [209.85.215.196]) + by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6ADB04C3 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Sat, 6 Jul 2019 01:46:47 +0000 (UTC) +Received: by mail-pg1-f196.google.com with SMTP id z75so4977545pgz.5 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Fri, 05 Jul 2019 18:46:47 -0700 (PDT) +DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; + d=voskuil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; + h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc + :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; + bh=sgcbCBQfL8UnII2v5I+YiW6R90PEMgO6b/5Prnq/Q9k=; + b=S37L38zopUChzmHldNcWD1vghA4kmCx9hENSUke7WIrt/37o9K6EcXudiDasl1V4Or + vkoBGQe8wur/2ISWK6nT5UdcjBOVwyL/7F1fOvXwu2Os62XOICs9ljDG6yXXFgEIRM9w + I+cG3mtlSl+XjXcMxx+NcYhIlEw82043E0vSyrPrWIZhYlDvHEDqScQgDloO9SLtD84E + AuEs5dDDJR6F96NnyJGtT3iIF+ac87d3GwXRlA3BEyxvnC2iuDiF8zdJJqmy+MxldWwq + HLMxuvs0aZyTmLLnpXvgmI3GEYB31WW8cYYj28BjdSMdp/NB0GBj8tboQ1MdbJJYjyq3 + ehXQ== +X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; + d=1e100.net; s=20161025; + h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc + :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; + bh=sgcbCBQfL8UnII2v5I+YiW6R90PEMgO6b/5Prnq/Q9k=; + b=HYHTtYWunNslNq/mj8IVAeuEsX1Vd1SAeZu5tT/Lwg2RBxyKOkt9hHSkOAtubcBdU5 + BBGkg0nJWeS1r4pivjTLfiIv5M7h6w96cM/7Tj8lkhHm2VgWsEydFRnHKAjf+kzpgFHW + 4+uiwITUPWawLHMQkAa0mo1ytBQysw1Td/1W1JGSK8qhghx16vraTaxbHOICy3FseC2i + O0ljOYRcqZw0MpdnIjKB6HF5enou/Juj62c+qpdJiuYnzOwxuPSPAeW1s2L1/6xLV7go + S6glgDemyZFr/KXniPmrIJGoPnSijKfJCjPryPeASDiZikFRqhUEn1zbwQMLuKMUjISG + aoiQ== +X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWrtz8zVFAEtKVpe6T8NKQEDm9fy3OkGA2H+1FU0sXBGBDvBRjr + 97tCtMdbYu25HIpdrSG4umvvaQ== +X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz150sfh2w1S51cpjWaaCRQhcp7cASD9koT4fSAEN3GyVJVFh5Dd6fbJUrtZv5C6K0Kt9cXpA== +X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:3ac2:: with SMTP id + b60mr9075408pjc.74.1562377606914; + Fri, 05 Jul 2019 18:46:46 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from ?IPv6:2601:600:a080:16bb:cc2:2a58:54e6:f4ef? + ([2601:600:a080:16bb:cc2:2a58:54e6:f4ef]) + by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id + h12sm10390599pje.12.2019.07.05.18.46.46 + (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); + Fri, 05 Jul 2019 18:46:46 -0700 (PDT) +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset=utf-8 +Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) +From: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org> +X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16F203) +In-Reply-To: <0851B842-34A1-427F-95DC-A1D6AB416FB9@voskuil.org> +Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 18:46:45 -0700 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <91607BB7-B57E-4F28-9DDF-D22B8E98739B@voskuil.org> +References: <0DBC0DEA-C999-4AEE-B2E1-D5337ECD9405@gmail.com> + <A64C3DCB-10CE-45EA-9A1B-7E3D13DF90EA@gmail.com> + <6B9A04E2-8EEE-40A0-8B39-64AA0F478CAB@voskuil.org> + <SEQmsx6ck79biVthBbBk1b9r9-R45sBwqWrv3FewQIBl4J18sOlwAPRt8sbTIbrBB8DX538GfwQkU40lyODmEkGSwah_VmbXT8iOr2Jcjlw=@protonmail.com> + <F17F2E86-BFA4-456E-85F9-0D6583692AEC@voskuil.org> + <kSCa9KUmpJox2_aglqhel-WdGlXf14mfKNZ95T4xqsrkQJ2Zh5zFA-Llq-j9cXX87iEPP5_aCkO9oR5kfQGKMBK9ds3Jct1V1FAawwa4CyE=@protonmail.com> + <B853EDF2-8A8A-44B0-A66E-F86175E61EDA@voskuil.org> + <4mT6iC4Va7Afg15a5NLbddAnF2a_vAcQSXYr_jg_5IyEK2ezblJff7EJZakoqvp4BJlLitt9Zlq1_l5JadR0nVss7VDPW-pv8jXGh7lkFC4=@protonmail.com> + <A1ADD0BB-F62F-47AF-B043-53BDF3A88CC3@voskuil.org> + <UyUISFwgh_-KtxpCJonltkqTvVbI9-NBukizE8tKSjB2V12otZiCWQ64sn8oqYk5NDftNHxW3koT9EPOWwVrOkXTP8Dqc-0W0wPGRK-wT34=@protonmail.com> + <0851B842-34A1-427F-95DC-A1D6AB416FB9@voskuil.org> +To: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, + DKIM_VALID, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE, + RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on + smtp1.linux-foundation.org +X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 06 Jul 2019 12:48:29 +0000 +Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable + riskless or risky lending, + prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2019 01:46:48 -0000 + + + +> On Jul 5, 2019, at 18:28, Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org> wrote: +>=20 +>=20 +>=20 +>> On Jul 5, 2019, at 17:17, ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> wrote: +>>=20 +>> Good morning Eric, +>>=20 +>>> But it=E2=80=99s worth noting that early recovery of the UTXO entirely e= +liminates the value of the time lock cost to the ad market. The most obvious= + example is one encumbering the coin to himself, then releasing it with his o= +wn two signatures whenever he wants. In other words, there is no encumbrance= + at all, just a bunch of pointless obscurantion. +>>=20 +>> You still do not understand. +>> I strongly suggest actually reading the post instead of skimming it. +>=20 +> I am responding to the cryptoeconomic principles, not the implementation d= +etails. Based on your comments here I am not misrepresenting those principle= +s. +>=20 +> For example, I have shown that the multisig unlock implementation reduces t= +he presumably-encumbered UTXO to simply a UTXO. You have not disputed that. I= +n fact below you have accepted it (more below). +>=20 +>> The advertisement is broadcast to new nodes on the ad network if and only= + if its backing UTXO remains unspent. +>> Once the UTXO is spent, then the advertisement is considered no longer va= +lid and will be outright deleted by existing nodes, and new nodes will not l= +earn of them (and would consider it spam if it is forced to them when the UT= +XO is already spent, possibly banning the node that pushes the advertisement= + at them). +>>=20 +>> Thus the locked-ness of the UTXO is the lifetime of the advertisement. +>=20 +> The term =E2=80=9Clocked=E2=80=9D here is misused. A unspent output that c= +an be spent at any time is just an unspent output. The fact that you can =E2= +=80=9Cunencumber=E2=80=9D your own coins should make this exceedingly obviou= +s: +>=20 +>> Once you disencumber the coins (whether your own, or rented) then your ad= +vertisement is gone; forever. +>=20 +> As I have shown, there is no *actual* encumbrance. +>=20 +>> Your advertisement exists only as long as the UTXO is unspent. +>=20 +> Exactly, which implies *any* UTXO is sufficient. All that the ad network r= +equires is proof of ownership of any UTXO. +>=20 +> Unspentness is not actually a necessary cost (expense). All coin is always= + represented as UTXOs. If one has a hoard of coin there is no necessary incr= +emental cost of identifying those coins to =E2=80=9Cback=E2=80=9D ads.This i= +sn=E2=80=99t altered by the proposed design. +>=20 +> The only cost would be to have a hoard that one does not otherwise desire,= + representing an opportunity cost. Yet, as I have also pointed out, the amou= +nt of that opportunity cost can simply be spent (or burned) by the advertise= +r, representing the same cost. So covering the case where one cannot raise t= +he capital to =E2=80=9Cback=E2=80=9D one=E2=80=99s ad does not require renta= +l, as the cost of the otherwise rental can just be spent outright. +>=20 +> Presumably it would be ideal to transfer the value of those spends to peop= +le who provably present the ads for effective viewing (i.e., the AdWords bus= +iness model). It is of course this market-driven cost of presenting an ad th= +at provides the spam protection/definition for AdWords. + +It=E2=80=99s worth pointing out at this point that this implies Google, etc.= + would achieve the same result by simply accepting Bitcoin for ad placement.= + In your model the advertiser is paying only for access to people who wish t= +o avoid spam, not for targeted and actual placement. In other words your ad s= +ystem would be directly competing with others that provide material addition= +al value for the advertiser beyond anti-spam. If nothing else this implies t= +he return on coin =E2=80=9Clock-up=E2=80=9D would be exceeded by its opportu= +nity cost. + +> Best, +> Eric +>=20 +>> Regards. +>> ZmnSCPxj + |