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authorEric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>2019-07-05 18:46:45 -0700
committerbitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>2019-07-06 01:46:48 +0000
commit7ef544de91c31485b42eb2350efc70f6107d66c5 (patch)
treecf0c16dfa6988413b4c56044f3d6997ef66df1b4
parentb6208af270d8c9765ad3cbd2784924cd33ec7f1c (diff)
downloadpi-bitcoindev-7ef544de91c31485b42eb2350efc70f6107d66c5.tar.gz
pi-bitcoindev-7ef544de91c31485b42eb2350efc70f6107d66c5.zip
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable riskless or risky lending, prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve
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+From: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>
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+Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 18:46:45 -0700
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+Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
+Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable
+ riskless or risky lending,
+ prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve
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+
+
+> On Jul 5, 2019, at 18:28, Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org> wrote:
+>=20
+>=20
+>=20
+>> On Jul 5, 2019, at 17:17, ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> wrote:
+>>=20
+>> Good morning Eric,
+>>=20
+>>> But it=E2=80=99s worth noting that early recovery of the UTXO entirely e=
+liminates the value of the time lock cost to the ad market. The most obvious=
+ example is one encumbering the coin to himself, then releasing it with his o=
+wn two signatures whenever he wants. In other words, there is no encumbrance=
+ at all, just a bunch of pointless obscurantion.
+>>=20
+>> You still do not understand.
+>> I strongly suggest actually reading the post instead of skimming it.
+>=20
+> I am responding to the cryptoeconomic principles, not the implementation d=
+etails. Based on your comments here I am not misrepresenting those principle=
+s.
+>=20
+> For example, I have shown that the multisig unlock implementation reduces t=
+he presumably-encumbered UTXO to simply a UTXO. You have not disputed that. I=
+n fact below you have accepted it (more below).
+>=20
+>> The advertisement is broadcast to new nodes on the ad network if and only=
+ if its backing UTXO remains unspent.
+>> Once the UTXO is spent, then the advertisement is considered no longer va=
+lid and will be outright deleted by existing nodes, and new nodes will not l=
+earn of them (and would consider it spam if it is forced to them when the UT=
+XO is already spent, possibly banning the node that pushes the advertisement=
+ at them).
+>>=20
+>> Thus the locked-ness of the UTXO is the lifetime of the advertisement.
+>=20
+> The term =E2=80=9Clocked=E2=80=9D here is misused. A unspent output that c=
+an be spent at any time is just an unspent output. The fact that you can =E2=
+=80=9Cunencumber=E2=80=9D your own coins should make this exceedingly obviou=
+s:
+>=20
+>> Once you disencumber the coins (whether your own, or rented) then your ad=
+vertisement is gone; forever.
+>=20
+> As I have shown, there is no *actual* encumbrance.
+>=20
+>> Your advertisement exists only as long as the UTXO is unspent.
+>=20
+> Exactly, which implies *any* UTXO is sufficient. All that the ad network r=
+equires is proof of ownership of any UTXO.
+>=20
+> Unspentness is not actually a necessary cost (expense). All coin is always=
+ represented as UTXOs. If one has a hoard of coin there is no necessary incr=
+emental cost of identifying those coins to =E2=80=9Cback=E2=80=9D ads.This i=
+sn=E2=80=99t altered by the proposed design.
+>=20
+> The only cost would be to have a hoard that one does not otherwise desire,=
+ representing an opportunity cost. Yet, as I have also pointed out, the amou=
+nt of that opportunity cost can simply be spent (or burned) by the advertise=
+r, representing the same cost. So covering the case where one cannot raise t=
+he capital to =E2=80=9Cback=E2=80=9D one=E2=80=99s ad does not require renta=
+l, as the cost of the otherwise rental can just be spent outright.
+>=20
+> Presumably it would be ideal to transfer the value of those spends to peop=
+le who provably present the ads for effective viewing (i.e., the AdWords bus=
+iness model). It is of course this market-driven cost of presenting an ad th=
+at provides the spam protection/definition for AdWords.
+
+It=E2=80=99s worth pointing out at this point that this implies Google, etc.=
+ would achieve the same result by simply accepting Bitcoin for ad placement.=
+ In your model the advertiser is paying only for access to people who wish t=
+o avoid spam, not for targeted and actual placement. In other words your ad s=
+ystem would be directly competing with others that provide material addition=
+al value for the advertiser beyond anti-spam. If nothing else this implies t=
+he return on coin =E2=80=9Clock-up=E2=80=9D would be exceeded by its opportu=
+nity cost.
+
+> Best,
+> Eric
+>=20
+>> Regards.
+>> ZmnSCPxj
+