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authorslush <slush@centrum.cz>2014-04-09 22:12:17 +0200
committerbitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>2014-04-09 20:12:54 +0000
commit7e62c214e94d97b1cdf751bfd636bcac41048897 (patch)
treea0567d93737901617e620187f10f4c7e9b5b39fd
parent740542509c85eb4d7cee26e8d600568727c78966 (diff)
downloadpi-bitcoindev-7e62c214e94d97b1cdf751bfd636bcac41048897.tar.gz
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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets
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+Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 22:12:17 +0200
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+Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV
+ wallets
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+--20cf307ac14162270604f6a1b97e
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+
+I believe there're plenty bitcoind instances running, but they don't have
+configured port forwarding properly.There's uPNP support in bitcoind, but
+it works only on simple setups.
+
+Maybe there're some not yet considered way how to expose these *existing*
+instances to Internet, to strenghten the network. Maybe just self-test
+indicating the node is not reachable from outside (together with short
+howto like in some torrent clients).
+
+These days IPv6 is slowly deploying to server environments, but maybe
+there's some simple way how to bundle ipv6 tunnelling into bitcoind so any
+instance will become ipv6-reachable automatically?
+
+Maybe there're other ideas how to improve current situation without needs
+of reworking the architecture.
+
+Marek
+
+
+On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com> wrote:
+
+> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Justus Ranvier <justusranvier@gmail.com>
+> wrote:
+> > Anyone reading the archives of the list will see about triple the
+> > number of people independently confirming the resource usage problem
+> > than they will see denying it, so I'm not particularly worried.
+>
+> The list has open membership, there is no particular qualification or
+> background required to post here. Optimal use of an information source
+> requires critical reading and understanding the limitations of the
+> medium. Counting comments is usually not a great way to assess
+> technical considerations on an open public forum. Doubly so because
+> those comments were not actually talking about the same thing I am
+> talking about.
+>
+> Existing implementations are inefficient in many known ways (and, no
+> doubt, some unknown ones). This list is about developing protocol and
+> implementations including improving their efficiency. When talking
+> about incentives the costs you need to consider are the costs of the
+> best realistic option. As far as I know there is no doubt from anyone
+> technically experienced that under the current network rules full
+> nodes can be operated with vastly less resources than current
+> implementations use, it's just a question of the relatively modest
+> implementation improvements.
+>
+> When you argue that Bitcoin doesn't have the right incentives (and
+> thus something??) I retort that the actual resource _requirements_ are
+> for the protocol very low. I gave specific example numbers to enable
+> correction or clarification if I've said something wrong or
+> controversial. Pointing out that existing implementations are not that
+> currently as efficient as the underlying requirements and that some
+> large number of users do not like the efficiency of existing
+> implementations doesn't tell me anything I disagree with or didn't
+> already know. Whats being discussed around here contributes to
+> prioritizing improvements over the existing implementations.
+>
+> I hope this clarifies something.
+>
+>
+> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+> Put Bad Developers to Shame
+> Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration
+> Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment
+> Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.
+> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees
+> _______________________________________________
+> Bitcoin-development mailing list
+> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
+> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
+>
+
+--20cf307ac14162270604f6a1b97e
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<div dir=3D"ltr">I believe there&#39;re plenty bitcoind instances running, =
+but they don&#39;t have configured port forwarding properly.There&#39;s uPN=
+P support in bitcoind, but it works only on simple setups.<div><br></div><d=
+iv>
+
+Maybe there&#39;re some not yet considered way how to expose these *existin=
+g* instances to Internet, to strenghten the network. Maybe just self-test i=
+ndicating the node is not reachable from outside (together with short howto=
+ like in some torrent clients).</div>
+
+<div><br></div><div>These days IPv6 is slowly deploying to server environme=
+nts, but maybe there&#39;s some simple way how to bundle ipv6 tunnelling in=
+to bitcoind so any instance will become ipv6-reachable automatically?</div>
+
+<div><br></div><div>Maybe there&#39;re other ideas how to improve current s=
+ituation without needs of reworking the architecture.</div><div><br></div><=
+div>Marek</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
+_quote">
+
+On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Gregory Maxwell <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
+ef=3D"mailto:gmaxwell@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gmaxwell@gmail.com</a>&g=
+t;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
+ .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
+
+<div class=3D"">On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Justus Ranvier &lt;<a href=
+=3D"mailto:justusranvier@gmail.com">justusranvier@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
+br>
+&gt; Anyone reading the archives of the list will see about triple the<br>
+&gt; number of people independently confirming the resource usage problem<b=
+r>
+&gt; than they will see denying it, so I&#39;m not particularly worried.<br=
+>
+<br>
+</div>The list has open membership, there is no particular qualification or=
+<br>
+background required to post here. Optimal use of an information source<br>
+requires critical reading and understanding the limitations of the<br>
+medium. Counting comments is usually not a great way to assess<br>
+technical considerations on an open public forum. =A0Doubly so because<br>
+those comments were not actually talking about the same thing I am<br>
+talking about.<br>
+<br>
+Existing implementations are inefficient in many known ways (and, no<br>
+doubt, some unknown ones). This list is about developing protocol and<br>
+implementations including improving their efficiency. =A0When talking<br>
+about incentives the costs you need to consider are the costs of the<br>
+best realistic option. =A0As far as I know there is no doubt from anyone<br=
+>
+technically experienced that under the current network rules full<br>
+nodes can be operated with vastly less resources than current<br>
+implementations use, it&#39;s just a question of the relatively modest<br>
+implementation improvements.<br>
+<br>
+When you argue that Bitcoin doesn&#39;t have the right incentives (and<br>
+thus something??) I retort that the actual resource _requirements_ are<br>
+for the protocol very low. I gave specific example numbers to enable<br>
+correction or clarification if I&#39;ve said something wrong or<br>
+controversial. Pointing out that existing implementations are not that<br>
+currently as efficient as the underlying requirements and that some<br>
+large number of users do not like the efficiency of existing<br>
+implementations doesn&#39;t tell me anything I disagree with or didn&#39;t<=
+br>
+already know. Whats being discussed around here contributes to<br>
+prioritizing improvements over the existing implementations.<br>
+<br>
+I hope this clarifies something.<br>
+<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
+---<br>
+Put Bad Developers to Shame<br>
+Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration<br>
+Continuously Automate Build, Test &amp; Deployment<br>
+Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.<br>
+<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees" target=3D"_blank">http://p.=
+sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees</a><br>
+_______________________________________________<br>
+Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
+<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
+pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
+<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
+" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
+velopment</a><br>
+</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
+
+--20cf307ac14162270604f6a1b97e--
+
+