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authorDaniel Lipshitz <daniel@gap600.com>2022-12-13 13:33:00 +0200
committerbitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>2022-12-13 11:33:14 +0000
commit7b78b3a675d717ea023338218beb2efb2bcd3149 (patch)
treebd21c3bbf56204c7b5cae47698e4c357e9bf4dad
parentcbc69e63a7b384deec8e5fba192282ccb702f83c (diff)
downloadpi-bitcoindev-7b78b3a675d717ea023338218beb2efb2bcd3149.tar.gz
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Re: [bitcoin-dev] A proposal for Full RBF to not exclude Zero Conf use case
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+From: Daniel Lipshitz <daniel@gap600.com>
+Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 13:33:00 +0200
+Message-ID: <CACkWPs9VawCYt7maiNqzafkFnHTiGJQkXMT4VXQQcG-rE2TTNw@mail.gmail.com>
+To: John Carvalho <john@synonym.to>
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000021004405efb3fcbe"
+X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 13:07:59 +0000
+Cc: bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
+Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A proposal for Full RBF to not exclude Zero Conf
+ use case
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+--00000000000021004405efb3fcbe
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+
+I dont think there was anything technical with the implementation and as
+far as I can tell this is well developed and ready.
+
+The reasons I can find for not being adopted are listed here -
+https://bitcoincore.org/en/faq/optin_rbf/ under - Why not First-seen-safe
+Replace-by-fee
+
+ Those reasons do not seem pertinent here - given OptinRBF already exists
+as an option and the added benefit of continuing to be able to support
+0-conf.
+
+________________________________
+
+Daniel Lipshitz
+GAP600| www.gap600.com
+Phone: +44 113 4900 117
+Skype: daniellipshitz123
+Twitter: @daniellipshitz
+
+
+On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 11:59 AM John Carvalho <john@synonym.to> wrote:
+
+> Why wasn't this solution put in place back then? Are there problems with
+> the design?
+>
+> While I still think there are unhealthy side-effects of Full-RBF (like
+> more doublespending at unknowing merchants, after years of FSS protection)
+> I think discussion of this FSS-RBF feature is worth considering.
+>
+> --
+> John Carvalho
+> CEO, Synonym.to <http://synonym.to/>
+>
+>
+> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 8:09 AM Daniel Lipshitz <daniel@gap600.com> wrote:
+>
+>> Thank you for bringing that to my attention, apologies for not being
+>> aware of it.
+>>
+>> First-seen-safe replace-by-fee as detailed here
+>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html
+>> by Peter Todd seems to be a very suitable option and route
+>> which balances FullRBF while retaining the significant 0-conf use case.
+>>
+>> This would seem like a good way forward.
+>>
+>>
+>>
+>> ________________________________
+>>
+>>
+>>
+>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 6:20 AM Yuval Kogman <nothingmuch@woobling.org>
+>> wrote:
+>>
+>>>
+>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html
+>>>
+>>
+
+--00000000000021004405efb3fcbe
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<div dir=3D"ltr">I dont think there was anything technical with the impleme=
+ntation and as far as I can tell this is well developed and ready.<div><br>=
+</div><div>The reasons I can find for not being adopted are listed here -=
+=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://bitcoincore.org/en/faq/optin_rbf/">https://bitcoin=
+core.org/en/faq/optin_rbf/</a> under - Why not First-seen-safe Replace-by-f=
+ee=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0Those reasons do not seem pertinent=
+=C2=A0here - given OptinRBF already exists as an option and the added benef=
+it of continuing=C2=A0to be able to support 0-conf.</div><div><br clear=3D"=
+all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmai=
+l_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-size=
+:12.8px">________________________________</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8=
+px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-se=
+rif">Daniel Lipshitz</font></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px;color:rgb(0=
+,0,0)"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif">GAP600|=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www=
+.gap600.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.gap600.com</a></font></div><div style=
+=3D"font-size:12.8px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif">Ph=
+one:=C2=A0</font><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:12.=
+8px">+44 113 4900 117</span></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px;color:rgb(=
+0,0,0)"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif">Skype: daniellipshitz123</font></=
+div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"tahoma, =
+sans-serif">Twitter: @daniellipshitz</font></div></div></div></div></div></=
+div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
+=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 11:59 AM John Carvalho &lt;<a href=
+=3D"mailto:john@synonym.to">john@synonym.to</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockq=
+uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
+x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Why wasn&#39;t =
+this solution put in=C2=A0place back then? Are there problems with the desi=
+gn?<div><br></div><div>While I still think there are unhealthy side-effects=
+ of Full-RBF (like more doublespending at unknowing=C2=A0merchants, after y=
+ears of FSS protection) I think discussion of this FSS-RBF feature is worth=
+ considering.</div><div><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D=
+"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">--</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(3=
+4,34,34)"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><div dir=3D"ltr">J=
+ohn Carvalho</div><div dir=3D"ltr">CEO,=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://synonym.to/"=
+ style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank">Synonym.to</a><br><div><f=
+ont size=3D"1"><br></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
+br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue,=
+ Dec 13, 2022 at 8:09 AM Daniel Lipshitz &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel@gap60=
+0.com" target=3D"_blank">daniel@gap600.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockqu=
+ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
+ solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you for br=
+inging that to my attention, apologies for not being aware of it.<div><br><=
+/div><div>First-seen-safe replace-by-fee as detailed here=C2=A0<a href=3D"h=
+ttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html=
+" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pi=
+permail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html</a>=C2=A0 by Peter Todd=C2=A0<span=
+ style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>seems to be a very=
+ suitable option and route which=C2=A0balances FullRBF while retaining=C2=
+=A0 the significant=C2=A00-conf use case.</div><div><br></div><div>This wou=
+ld seem like a good way forward.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><b=
+r><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=
+=3D"font-size:12.8px">________________________________</div><div style=3D"f=
+ont-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div></div>=
+</div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
+=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 6:20 AM Yuval Kogman =
+&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nothingmuch@woobling.org" target=3D"_blank">nothingmu=
+ch@woobling.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
+tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
+ding-left:1ex"><a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitco=
+in-dev/2015-May/008248.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://l=
+ists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html</a><br>
+</blockquote></div>
+</blockquote></div>
+</blockquote></div>
+
+--00000000000021004405efb3fcbe--
+