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| author | Sergio Demian Lerner <sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com> | 2017-04-06 17:42:19 -0300 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2017-04-06 20:43:01 +0000 |
| commit | 77829094ad3f01ca68dff1607255ce4541a6bfd5 (patch) | |
| tree | 0c427700d70efc0841312c109ec63f113f370042 | |
| parent | 7d384309569c046b4d8413ac3ac9c9055d678686 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-77829094ad3f01ca68dff1607255ce4541a6bfd5.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-77829094ad3f01ca68dff1607255ce4541a6bfd5.zip | |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Segwit2Mb - combined soft/hard fork - Request For Comments
| -rw-r--r-- | 01/a39cb50e5a0fa1e956978075f3dd5c3248e58f | 164 |
1 files changed, 164 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/01/a39cb50e5a0fa1e956978075f3dd5c3248e58f b/01/a39cb50e5a0fa1e956978075f3dd5c3248e58f new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1e292306f --- /dev/null +++ b/01/a39cb50e5a0fa1e956978075f3dd5c3248e58f @@ -0,0 +1,164 @@ +Return-Path: <sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com> +Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org + [172.17.192.35]) + by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1671BA5E + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Thu, 6 Apr 2017 20:43:01 +0000 (UTC) +X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 +Received: from mail-qk0-f170.google.com (mail-qk0-f170.google.com + [209.85.220.170]) + by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96DF8151 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Thu, 6 Apr 2017 20:43:00 +0000 (UTC) +Received: by mail-qk0-f170.google.com with SMTP id f133so30747199qke.2 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Thu, 06 Apr 2017 13:43:00 -0700 (PDT) +DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; + h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to + :cc; bh=HzeA7Z2QK7nFK5/ixhaY9nRzrN24UmJr74jl8278KQE=; + b=qxpJG70nb3KnAJFa9y1xVp+oLkqKN8KPxB0chVWeA6EGlDhC3CGUe/VKL9/sQbaylH + kdq2mHIgzjGNy8u6Kuo4CCuiIE/yCH5NrYQo20wWhbb00T2Y5tOByCaVBtLCNfYv/QiW + exwPVatyLCzDhFHpntOD/o0yGnxZAYVItmejMr6+fHj81+tApxaNxM0NympXSbETdpPj + /Cd3mOaGya4im/l6cway0k7xqdblzMHvhfiLO2J1VvZiWcSGTyiJsjWHD3VuTiE+57PH + 7I9JTKcemvnO0fO28pQszOpGR3m/ceA2QW8LtmSHuqVX1FospriS27gh7AlwcHLkvw8n + vK2A== +X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; + d=1e100.net; s=20161025; + h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date + :message-id:subject:to:cc; + bh=HzeA7Z2QK7nFK5/ixhaY9nRzrN24UmJr74jl8278KQE=; + b=KJsFyTjUilgml5KLYMU+9nA6SBoSPq5FCk3HmIynu83bf/LcmqEvgivMyDtY/Kl7Ms + LwwsMvABpzErSh7tsJccIG+Hw48ysEcAGwS14Isbji2Eo7oQFzJlQVXO4EQo+tk6Yl0T + VqY8zgP4E2jfl26aQC3zIVs0VOVdFSFY60Nh7UNnHMcFbFMmmLn3o/YQ/SG2NsxHYJ6i + 1FYZQ5wJghRedZtI/XUwfKF9WtvkgNiMk3CVFL5BNhc68LtwDYQr4E7aIdQ8E60PMRLN + pJyvJ4tHxF7qJLxp19AJOXJrRd5zVG5m3oInxMJ6nKbrbqQy6TwTcE/wru8ZQr9Bx9Mm + ip9g== +X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H2MYoNP8anTJ3dyCdoY12XOtxi9u8K8NVSd3EzxVUPn1T7l7d5KCclvn/bipgQMD1bXxGbo3R+CAP5Udw== +X-Received: by 10.55.22.95 with SMTP id g92mr26832241qkh.87.1491511379732; + Thu, 06 Apr 2017 13:42:59 -0700 (PDT) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Received: by 10.12.170.220 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Apr 2017 13:42:19 -0700 (PDT) +In-Reply-To: <CADJgMztpmcC_rv_oKYn_jRhLzx2FbtxgPUshcPDJpQVZYBcJzw@mail.gmail.com> +References: <CAKzdR-oN6tGvGSb04_awCf=Jsf3wgKJN5xUhCr8G2D2W9YgJww@mail.gmail.com> + <CADJgMztpmcC_rv_oKYn_jRhLzx2FbtxgPUshcPDJpQVZYBcJzw@mail.gmail.com> +From: Sergio Demian Lerner <sergio.d.lerner@gmail.com> +Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 17:42:19 -0300 +Message-ID: <CAKzdR-qYjK0WHL51x4wJGpBuqjUu-Q8nBEPcLfj_qao=b-ZzaA@mail.gmail.com> +To: Btc Drak <btcdrak@gmail.com> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1147b01ef7b169054c858df5 +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, + DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, + RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, + RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM autolearn=no version=3.3.1 +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on + smtp1.linux-foundation.org +Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Segwit2Mb - combined soft/hard fork - Request For + Comments +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 20:43:01 -0000 + +--001a1147b01ef7b169054c858df5 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 + +The 95% miner signaling is important to prevent two Bitcoin forks, such as +what happened with Ethereum HF and Ethereum Classic. + +Bitcoin has a very slow difficulty re-targeting algorithm. A fork that has +just 95% miner support will initially (for 2016 blocks) be 5% slower (an +average block every 10 minutes and 30 seconds). The transaction capacity of +the new Bitcoin protocol is reduced only 5%. +However the chain with 5% if the hashing power not only has a 20x capacity +reduction, but confirms transactions in 20x more time. So the mempool will +grow 400 times. It must be noted that fees increased 10x from the moment +blocks were half full, to the moment blocks became saturated. I'm sure no +Bitcoin (pre-fork) user will be willing to pay 100x times the transaction +fees to use such a slow and insecure network. + +So a 6-block confirmation will take 20 hours in the original chain and the +original chain will be in this almost useless slow state for an average of +2016 blocks, or 280 days. +If the original blockchain hard-forks to re-adjust the difficulty, then it +will just represent an alt-coin having 5% of Bitcoin community, and it +can't affect Bitcoin (the segwit2mb fork). + + +On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Btc Drak <btcdrak@gmail.com> wrote: + +> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 10:09 PM, Sergio Demian Lerner via bitcoin-dev < +> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: +> +>> The hard-fork is conditional to 95% of the hashing power has approved the +>> segwit2mb soft-fork and the segwit soft-fork has been activated (which +>> should occur 2016 blocks after its lock-in time) +>> +> +> Miners signalling they have upgraded by flipping a bit in the nVersion +> field has little relevance in a hard fork. If 100% of the hash power +> indicates they are running this proposal, but the nodes don't upgrade, what +> will happen? +> +> For the record, I actually talk a lot about hard forks with various +> developers and am very interested in the research that Johnson in +> particular is pioneering. However, I have failed to understand your point +> about 95% miner signalling in relation to a hard fork, so I am eagerly +> awaiting your explanation. +> + +--001a1147b01ef7b169054c858df5 +Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>The 95% miner signaling is important to prevent two B= +itcoin forks, such as what happened with Ethereum HF and Ethereum Classic.<= +/div><div><br></div>Bitcoin has a very slow difficulty re-targeting algorit= +hm. A fork that has just 95% miner support will initially (for 2016 blocks)= + be 5% slower (an average block every 10 minutes and 30 seconds). The trans= +action capacity of the new Bitcoin protocol is reduced only 5%.=C2=A0<div>H= +owever the chain with 5% if the hashing power not only has a 20x capacity r= +eduction, but confirms transactions in 20x more time. So the mempool will g= +row 400 times. It must be noted that fees increased 10x from the moment blo= +cks were half full, to the moment blocks became saturated. I'm sure no = +Bitcoin (pre-fork) user will be willing to pay 100x times the transaction f= +ees to use such a slow and insecure network.</div><div><br></div><div>So a = +6-block confirmation will take 20 hours in the original chain and the origi= +nal chain will be in this almost useless slow state for an average of 2016 = +blocks, or 280 days.=C2=A0<div>If the original blockchain hard-forks to re-= +adjust the difficulty, then it will just represent an alt-coin having 5% of= + Bitcoin community, and it can't affect Bitcoin (the segwit2mb fork).</= +div><div><br></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D= +"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Btc Drak <span dir=3D"ltr">&= +lt;<a href=3D"mailto:btcdrak@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">btcdrak@gmail.com= +</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin= +:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><= +div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D"">On Fr= +i, Mar 31, 2017 at 10:09 PM, Sergio Demian Lerner via bitcoin-dev <span dir= +=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" targe= +t=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrot= +e:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l= +eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>The hard-fork is= + conditional to 95% of the hashing power has approved the segwit2mb soft-fo= +rk and the segwit soft-fork has been activated (which should occur 2016 blo= +cks after its lock-in time)</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><= +div>Miners signalling they have upgraded by flipping a bit in the nVersion = +field has little relevance in a hard fork. If 100% of the hash power indica= +tes they are running this proposal, but the nodes don't upgrade, what w= +ill happen?<br></div><div><br></div><div>For the record, I actually talk a = +lot about hard forks with various developers and am very interested in the = +research that Johnson in particular is pioneering. However, I have failed t= +o understand your point about 95% miner signalling in relation to a hard fo= +rk, so I am eagerly awaiting your explanation.</div></div></div></div> +</blockquote></div><br></div> + +--001a1147b01ef7b169054c858df5-- + |