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authorMike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>2013-07-09 13:18:07 +0200
committerbitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>2013-07-09 11:18:18 +0000
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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org
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+From: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
+To: Jim <jim618@fastmail.co.uk>
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+Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
+Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop
+ client on bitcoin.org
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+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
+
+By the way, the Java Web Start system has improved a lot in recent versions
+as well. I just tried running http://jfxtras.org/ and this was the
+experience:
+
+ - It told me my Java was insecure and that I should download the latest
+ version (hah). It had three buttons, one saying "Update", one saying "Block
+ content in browser" and one saying "Later". So it seems Java learned how to
+ disable its plugin by itself anyway. I think on non-Linux platforms it
+ probably knows how to update itself as well these days.
+ - As it happens I don't care right now because jfxtras is a source I
+ trust, so I clicked later and it popped up a permission screen saying the
+ author was unknown, could damage my computer, etc. Actually, Jim has a code
+ signing cert so this would show his identity at that point.
+ - Clicked run. The app downloaded in a few seconds and was running.
+ - JavaWS keeps the app up to date for you at that point.
+
+It's triggered by downloading and opening a .jnlp file, so - same security
+boundaries as a regular app download, except you download metadata for the
+runtime instead of the whole app at once.
+
+It might be worth providing a JNLP option on the multibit webpage as well,
+as although I wouldn't let the applet plugin in my browser, once I made an
+explicit decision to go to multibit.org and trust James Burton with my
+money, the JWS experience at that point is pretty good. Until we have our
+own auto update engine it's better than nothing.
+
+
+
+On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
+
+> How many downloads/day do we see currently? I think you said it's on the
+> order of a few thousand, so nowhere near 30k I'd guess. Anyway I can mirror
+> it if we need to.
+>
+> The JavaFX packager is supposed to delete parts of the JVM that aren't
+> used. Is the 30-40mb figure based on using that tool or something else?
+> Note that you don't need to use the JFX widget toolkit to use the bundler
+> tool.
+>
+> We could also invest in a copy of JET, which does native compilation down
+> to self contained Windows binaries. It might create smaller bundles. But,
+> it's a proprietary tool and I don't know how reproducible its outputs are.
+>
+> For the auto update, is there an existing auto update framework that we
+> can modify to support threshold signed updates? I'm sure such a thing must
+> exist. The updates would download in the background and then the app can
+> just ask the user to restart it once the update is locally available, as
+> Chrome does.
+>
+>
+>
+> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Jim <jim618@fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
+>
+>> Yes I would like to bundle a JVM as it would simplify the user
+>> experience.
+>>
+>> There are a few downsides though:
+>> + all the build packaging will need redoing and retesting.
+>> + it will bump up the MultiBit download from about 11MB to 30-40MB
+>> (I think). This drops the maximum copies of MultiBit the multibit.org
+>> server can deliver per day from around 90,000 to 30,000ish.
+>> The multibit.org server maxes out at 1 TB of bandwidth per day.
+>>
+>> Currently there is no provision to update anything automatically.
+>> I would like to start having Bitcoin signed files that MultiBit can
+>> check
+>> and update (initially the checkpoints file, I18N files - NOT code
+>> at first because of the security implications). I think this needs to be
+>> in place before bundling a JVM so that users don't have to
+>> keep redownloading it.
+>>
+>> Having lists of all the artifacts signed and them having SHA256 hashes
+>> then makes it practical/ safe to start mirroring the code. I can see
+>> each mirror crosschecking the others that the SHA256s are correct
+>> for instance. This would increase the maximum number of
+>> downloads we could cope with.
+>>
+>>
+>> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013, at 11:36 AM, Mike Hearn wrote:
+>> > Modern Java versions let you bundle the app with a stripped down JVM. I
+>> > don't know if Jim does that, but I think it's an obvious step towards
+>> > making MultiBit friendlier and easier to use.
+>> >
+>> > BTW I believe most secure browsers (Chrome, Firefox) have banned the
+>> > applet
+>> > plugin or severely restrained it anyway. So even if you install the JVM
+>> > and
+>> > plugin together there is not an issue.
+>> >
+>> >
+>> > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 3:20 AM, Caleb James DeLisle <
+>> > calebdelisle@lavabit.com> wrote:
+>> >
+>> > > Java (Applet) security is indeed abysmal but lets compare apples to
+>> apples.
+>> > > With an applet some random guy with a website makes up some Java code
+>> and
+>> > > your browser automatically executes it.
+>> > > With Multibit you're only executing highly trusted code (so trusted
+>> that it
+>> > > handles your money).
+>> > > There has almost never been a Java exploit against secure trusted
+>> code.
+>> > >
+>> > > The idea of discouraging use of java apps just because people would be
+>> > > tricked into activating the browser plugin when installing the JVM is
+>> > > probably valid but Multibit is the only reasonably complete client
+>> outside
+>> > > of bitcoinqt and I think client diversity is more important than
+>> stamping
+>> > > out java.
+>> > >
+>> > > Thanks,
+>> > > Caleb
+>> > >
+>> > >
+>> > > On 07/08/2013 08:22 PM, Robert Backhaus wrote:
+>> > > > But... Multibit is Java. Java's security problems has made it an
+>> instant
+>> > > uninstall item on windows PCs for about a year now. Java exploits are
+>> a
+>> > > dime a dozen.
+>> > > >
+>> > > > Yes, you can reduce some of the problems by manually disabling the
+>> > > browser plugin, but how many users will do that?
+>> > > >
+>> > > > Recommending a fast SPV client as a first wallet - yes, of course.
+>> > > Recommending users open such a huge attack interface on their
+>> computers by
+>> > > installing Java - No go. Until Multibit is provided as a compiled
+>> binary
+>> > > without a Java dependency, it is DOA.
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > > > On 1 July 2013 02:39, Gary Rowe <g.rowe@froot.co.uk <mailto:
+>> > > g.rowe@froot.co.uk>> wrote:
+>> > > >
+>> > > > I've beefed up the supporting documentation for the website to
+>> make
+>> > > it more accessible for developers who wish to contribute. It's a Java
+>> > > application serving HTML.
+>> > > >
+>> > > > It can be found here:
+>> https://github.com/jim618/multibit-website
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > > > On 30 June 2013 16:19, Jim <jim618@fastmail.co.uk <mailto:
+>> > > jim618@fastmail.co.uk>> wrote:
+>> > > >
+>> > > > Yeah "email jim' was never going to work so I have
+>> > > > bumped up MultiBit support (a bit) by:
+>> > > >
+>> > > > + having a dedicated Support page on the website
+>> > > > https://multibit.org/support.html
+>> > > > It has fixes and support notes for the most common
+>> gotchas.
+>> > > > + the in-app help also now has a 'Support' section with
+>> > > > "Troubleshooting' and the commonest gotchas.
+>> > > > I've also written more help to cover as much as possible.
+>> > > > + Failing that people are directed first to
+>> > > bitcoin.stackchange.com <http://bitcoin.stackchange.com>
+>> > > > (I have a notification set up for the 'multibit' keyword.
+>> > > > + Then finally users are directed to the github issues to
+>> search
+>> > > > existing or raise a new issue. Gary and Tim often chip
+>> in on
+>> > > there to
+>> > > > close
+>> > > > issues down as well as me.
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
+>> > > > > Sounds like we have consensus, Saivann, shall we do it?
+>> > > > >
+>> > > > > I'm also going to ask Theymos again to relax the newbie
+>> > > restrictions
+>> > > > > for the alt client forums. It's probably too hard to get
+>> > > support at
+>> > > > > the moment and "email jim" doesn't scale at all.
+>> > > > >
+>> > > > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Gavin Andresen <
+>> > > gavinandresen@gmail.com <mailto:gavinandresen@gmail.com>>
+>> > > > > wrote:
+>> > > > > > I vote "yes" to have MultiBit replace Bitcoin-Qt as the
+>> > > recommended
+>> > > > > > desktop wallet app. I think most users will be happier
+>> with
+>> > > it.
+>> > > > > >
+>> > > > > > If I'm wrong, it is easy to change back.
+>> > > > > >
+>> > > > > >
+>> > >
+>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+>> > > > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
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+>> > > > > > Build for Windows Store.
+>> > > > > >
+>> > > > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
+>> > > > > > _______________________________________________
+>> > > > > > Bitcoin-development mailing list
+>> > > > > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:
+>> > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
+>> > > > > >
+>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
+>> > > > >
+>> > > > >
+>> > >
+>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+>> > > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
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+>> > > > >
+>> > > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
+>> > > > > _______________________________________________
+>> > > > > Bitcoin-development mailing list
+>> > > > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:
+>> > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
+>> > > > >
+>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > > > --
+>> > > > https://multibit.org Money, reinvented
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > >
+>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+>> > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
+>> > > >
+>> > > > Build for Windows Store.
+>> > > >
+>> > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
+>> > > > _______________________________________________
+>> > > > Bitcoin-development mailing list
+>> > > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:
+>> > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
+>> > > >
+>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > >
+>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+>> > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
+>> > > >
+>> > > > Build for Windows Store.
+>> > > >
+>> > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
+>> > > > _______________________________________________
+>> > > > Bitcoin-development mailing list
+>> > > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:
+>> > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
+>> > > >
+>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > >
+>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+>> > > > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics
+>> > > > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from
+>> AppDynamics
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+>> > > > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!
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+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > > >
+>> > > > _______________________________________________
+>> > > > Bitcoin-development mailing list
+>> > > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
+>> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
+>> > > >
+>> > >
+>> > >
+>> > >
+>> > >
+>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+>> > > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics
+>> > > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics
+>> > > Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.
+>> > > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!
+>> > >
+>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
+>> > > _______________________________________________
+>> > > Bitcoin-development mailing list
+>> > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
+>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
+>> > >
+>> >
+>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+>> > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics
+>> > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics
+>> > Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.
+>> > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!
+>> >
+>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
+>> > _______________________________________________
+>> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
+>> > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
+>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
+>>
+>>
+>> --
+>> https://multibit.org Money, reinvented
+>>
+>>
+>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+>> See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics
+>> Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics
+>> Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.
+>> Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!
+>>
+>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
+>> _______________________________________________
+>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
+>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
+>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
+>>
+>
+>
+
+--047d7b4728b4bf15cb04e112509c
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<div dir=3D"ltr">By the way, the Java Web Start system has improved a lot i=
+n recent versions as well. I just tried running=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://jfxt=
+ras.org/">http://jfxtras.org/</a>=C2=A0and this was the experience:<div><ul=
+><li>It told me my Java was insecure and that I should download the latest =
+version (hah). It had three buttons, one saying &quot;Update&quot;, one say=
+ing &quot;Block content in browser&quot; and one saying &quot;Later&quot;. =
+So it seems Java learned how to disable its plugin by itself anyway. I thin=
+k on non-Linux platforms it probably knows how to update itself as well the=
+se days.</li>
+<li>As it happens I don&#39;t care right now because jfxtras is a source I =
+trust, so I clicked later and it popped up a permission screen saying the a=
+uthor was unknown, could damage my computer, etc. Actually, Jim has a code =
+signing cert so this would show his identity at that point.</li>
+<li>Clicked run. The app downloaded in a few seconds and was running.</li><=
+li>JavaWS keeps the app up to date for you at that point.</li></ul><div>It&=
+#39;s triggered by downloading and opening a .jnlp file, so - same security=
+ boundaries as a regular app download, except you download metadata for the=
+ runtime instead of the whole app at once.</div>
+</div><div><br></div><div>It might be worth providing a JNLP option on the =
+multibit webpage as well, as although I wouldn&#39;t let the applet plugin =
+in my browser, once I made an explicit decision to go to <a href=3D"http://=
+multibit.org">multibit.org</a> and trust James Burton with my money, the JW=
+S experience at that point is pretty good. Until we have our own auto updat=
+e engine it&#39;s better than nothing.</div>
+<div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
+_quote">On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Mike Hearn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
+ href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net" target=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a>&gt;<=
+/span> wrote:<br>
+<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
+x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">How many downloads/day do w=
+e see currently? I think you said it&#39;s on the order of a few thousand, =
+so nowhere near 30k I&#39;d guess. Anyway I can mirror it if we need to.<di=
+v>
+<br></div><div>The JavaFX packager is supposed to delete parts of the JVM t=
+hat aren&#39;t used. Is the 30-40mb figure based on using that tool or some=
+thing else? Note that you don&#39;t need to use the JFX widget toolkit to u=
+se the bundler tool.</div>
+
+<div><br></div><div>We could also invest in a copy of JET, which does nativ=
+e compilation down to self contained Windows binaries. It might create smal=
+ler bundles. But, it&#39;s a proprietary tool and I don&#39;t know how repr=
+oducible its outputs are.</div>
+
+<div><br></div><div>For the auto update, is there an existing auto update f=
+ramework that we can modify to support threshold signed updates? I&#39;m su=
+re such a thing must exist. The updates would download in the background an=
+d then the app can just ask the user to restart it once the update is local=
+ly available, as Chrome does.</div>
+
+<div><br></div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"=
+gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 12:5=
+6 PM, Jim <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jim618@fastmail.co.uk" ta=
+rget=3D"_blank">jim618@fastmail.co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
+
+<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
+x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Yes I would like to bundle a JVM as it would=
+ simplify the user<br>
+experience.<br>
+<br>
+There are a few downsides though:<br>
++ all the build packaging will need redoing and retesting.<br>
++ it will bump up the MultiBit download from about 11MB to 30-40MB<br>
+(I think). This drops the maximum copies of MultiBit the <a href=3D"http://=
+multibit.org" target=3D"_blank">multibit.org</a><br>
+server can deliver per day from around 90,000 to 30,000ish.<br>
+The <a href=3D"http://multibit.org" target=3D"_blank">multibit.org</a> serv=
+er maxes out at 1 TB of bandwidth per day.<br>
+<br>
+Currently there is no provision to update anything automatically.<br>
+I would like to start having Bitcoin signed files that MultiBit can<br>
+check<br>
+and update (initially the checkpoints file, I18N files - NOT code<br>
+at first because of the security implications). I think this needs to be<br=
+>
+in place before bundling a JVM so that users don&#39;t have to<br>
+keep redownloading it.<br>
+<br>
+Having lists of all the artifacts signed and them having SHA256 hashes<br>
+then makes it practical/ safe to start mirroring the code. I can see<br>
+each mirror crosschecking the others that the SHA256s are correct<br>
+for instance. This would increase the maximum number of<br>
+downloads we could cope with.<br>
+<div><div><br>
+<br>
+On Tue, Jul 9, 2013, at 11:36 AM, Mike Hearn wrote:<br>
+&gt; Modern Java versions let you bundle the app with a stripped down JVM. =
+I<br>
+&gt; don&#39;t know if Jim does that, but I think it&#39;s an obvious step =
+towards<br>
+&gt; making MultiBit friendlier and easier to use.<br>
+&gt;<br>
+&gt; BTW I believe most secure browsers (Chrome, Firefox) have banned the<b=
+r>
+&gt; applet<br>
+&gt; plugin or severely restrained it anyway. So even if you install the JV=
+M<br>
+&gt; and<br>
+&gt; plugin together there is not an issue.<br>
+&gt;<br>
+&gt;<br>
+&gt; On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 3:20 AM, Caleb James DeLisle &lt;<br>
+&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:calebdelisle@lavabit.com" target=3D"_blank">calebdel=
+isle@lavabit.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
+&gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; Java (Applet) security is indeed abysmal but lets compare apples =
+to apples.<br>
+&gt; &gt; With an applet some random guy with a website makes up some Java =
+code and<br>
+&gt; &gt; your browser automatically executes it.<br>
+&gt; &gt; With Multibit you&#39;re only executing highly trusted code (so t=
+rusted that it<br>
+&gt; &gt; handles your money).<br>
+&gt; &gt; There has almost never been a Java exploit against secure trusted=
+ code.<br>
+&gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; The idea of discouraging use of java apps just because people wou=
+ld be<br>
+&gt; &gt; tricked into activating the browser plugin when installing the JV=
+M is<br>
+&gt; &gt; probably valid but Multibit is the only reasonably complete clien=
+t outside<br>
+&gt; &gt; of bitcoinqt and I think client diversity is more important than =
+stamping<br>
+&gt; &gt; out java.<br>
+&gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; Thanks,<br>
+&gt; &gt; Caleb<br>
+&gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; On 07/08/2013 08:22 PM, Robert Backhaus wrote:<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; But... Multibit is Java. Java&#39;s security problems has ma=
+de it an instant<br>
+&gt; &gt; uninstall item on windows PCs for about a year now. Java exploits=
+ are a<br>
+&gt; &gt; dime a dozen.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; Yes, you can reduce some of the problems by manually disabli=
+ng the<br>
+&gt; &gt; browser plugin, but how many users will do that?<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; Recommending a fast SPV client as a first wallet - yes, of c=
+ourse.<br>
+&gt; &gt; Recommending users open such a huge attack interface on their com=
+puters by<br>
+&gt; &gt; installing Java - No go. Until Multibit is provided as a compiled=
+ binary<br>
+&gt; &gt; without a Java dependency, it is DOA.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; On 1 July 2013 02:39, Gary Rowe &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:g.rowe=
+@froot.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">g.rowe@froot.co.uk</a> &lt;mailto:<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:g.rowe@froot.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">g.rowe@fr=
+oot.co.uk</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I&#39;ve beefed up the supporting documentatio=
+n for the website to make<br>
+&gt; &gt; it more accessible for developers who wish to contribute. It&#39;=
+s a Java<br>
+&gt; &gt; application serving HTML.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 It can be found here: <a href=3D"https://githu=
+b.com/jim618/multibit-website" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/jim618/=
+multibit-website</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 30 June 2013 16:19, Jim &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
+to:jim618@fastmail.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">jim618@fastmail.co.uk</a> &lt;m=
+ailto:<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:jim618@fastmail.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">jim618=
+@fastmail.co.uk</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yeah &quot;email jim&#39; was ne=
+ver going to work so I have<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 bumped up MultiBit support (a bi=
+t) by:<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 + having a dedicated Support pag=
+e on the website<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://=
+multibit.org/support.html" target=3D"_blank">https://multibit.org/support.h=
+tml</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It has fixes and su=
+pport notes for the most common gotchas.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 + the in-app help also now has a=
+ &#39;Support&#39; section with<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;Troubleshooti=
+ng&#39; and the commonest gotchas.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I&#39;ve also writt=
+en more help to cover as much as possible.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 + Failing that people are direct=
+ed first to<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://bitcoin.stackchange.com" target=3D"_blank">bitc=
+oin.stackchange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"http://bitcoin.stackchange.com" targ=
+et=3D"_blank">http://bitcoin.stackchange.com</a>&gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(I have a notificat=
+ion set up for the &#39;multibit&#39; keyword.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 + Then finally users are directe=
+d to the github issues to search<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0existing or raise a=
+ new issue. Gary and Tim often chip in on<br>
+&gt; &gt; there to<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0close<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0issues down as well=
+ as me.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Sun, Jun 30, 2013, at 12:42 P=
+M, Mike Hearn wrote:<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Sounds like we have consens=
+us, Saivann, shall we do it?<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; I&#39;m also going to ask T=
+heymos again to relax the newbie<br>
+&gt; &gt; restrictions<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; for the alt client forums. =
+It&#39;s probably too hard to get<br>
+&gt; &gt; support at<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; the moment and &quot;email =
+jim&quot; doesn&#39;t scale at all.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 4:2=
+4 PM, Gavin Andresen &lt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:gavinandresen@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gavi=
+nandresen@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gavinandresen@gmail.co=
+m" target=3D"_blank">gavinandresen@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; wrote:<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; I vote &quot;yes&quot;=
+ to have MultiBit replace Bitcoin-Qt as the<br>
+&gt; &gt; recommended<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; desktop wallet app. I =
+think most users will be happier with<br>
+&gt; &gt; it.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; If I&#39;m wrong, it i=
+s easy to change back.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; -----------------------------------------------------------------=
+-------------<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; This SF.net email is s=
+ponsored by Windows:<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; Build for Windows Stor=
+e.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://p.sf=
+.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev=
+2dev</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; ______________________=
+_________________________<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; Bitcoin-development ma=
+iling list<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Bitc=
+oin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-developmen=
+t@lists.sourceforge.net</a> &lt;mailto:<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" targ=
+et=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a>&gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-d=
+evelopment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/=
+bitcoin-development</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; -----------------------------------------------------------------=
+-------------<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; This SF.net email is sponso=
+red by Windows:<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Build for Windows Store.<br=
+>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/=
+sfu/windows-dev2dev" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev<=
+/a><br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; ___________________________=
+____________________<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Bitcoin-development mailing=
+ list<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-d=
+evelopment@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lis=
+ts.sourceforge.net</a> &lt;mailto:<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" targ=
+et=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a>&gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-d=
+evelopment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/=
+bitcoin-development</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://multibit.org"=
+ target=3D"_blank">https://multibit.org</a> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Money, reinvented<=
+br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; -----------------------------------------------------------------=
+-------------<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This SF.net email is sponsored b=
+y Windows:<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Build for Windows Store.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/w=
+indows-dev2dev" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev</a><b=
+r>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ________________________________=
+_______________<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bitcoin-development mailing list=
+<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-develo=
+pment@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.so=
+urceforge.net</a> &lt;mailto:<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" targ=
+et=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a>&gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://lists.sourcef=
+orge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development" target=3D"_blank">https://list=
+s.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; -----------------------------------------------------------------=
+-------------<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Build for Windows Store.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev=
+" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________________________=
+_<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.so=
+urceforge.net" target=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net<=
+/a> &lt;mailto:<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" targ=
+et=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a>&gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists=
+/listinfo/bitcoin-development" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.=
+net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; -----------------------------------------------------------------=
+-------------<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; See everything from the browser to the database with AppDyna=
+mics<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from A=
+ppDynamics<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D488088=
+31&amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclic=
+k.net/gampad/clk?id=3D48808831&amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net"=
+ target=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitc=
+oin-development" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/list=
+info/bitcoin-development</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; -----------------------------------------------------------------=
+-------------<br>
+&gt; &gt; See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics<=
+br>
+&gt; &gt; Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDyn=
+amics<br>
+&gt; &gt; Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.<br>
+&gt; &gt; Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D488088=
+31&amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclic=
+k.net/gampad/clk?id=3D48808831&amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
+&gt; &gt; Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" targ=
+et=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-d=
+evelopment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/=
+bitcoin-development</a><br>
+&gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
+--------<br>
+&gt; See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics<br>
+&gt; Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics=
+<br>
+&gt; Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.<br>
+&gt; Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!<br>
+&gt; <a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D48808831&am=
+p;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net=
+/gampad/clk?id=3D48808831&amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>
+&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
+&gt; Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
+&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D=
+"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
+&gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-develo=
+pment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitco=
+in-development</a><br>
+<br>
+<br>
+--<br>
+<a href=3D"https://multibit.org" target=3D"_blank">https://multibit.org</a>=
+ =C2=A0 =C2=A0Money, reinvented<br>
+<br>
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
+---<br>
+See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics<br>
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+Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!<br>
+<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D48808831&amp;iu=
+=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam=
+pad/clk?id=3D48808831&amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>
+_______________________________________________<br>
+Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
+<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
+nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
+<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
+" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
+velopment</a><br>
+</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
+</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
+
+--047d7b4728b4bf15cb04e112509c--
+
+