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authorjbesraa <jbesraa@gmail.com>2025-03-25 05:52:07 -0700
committerbitcoindev <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>2025-03-26 11:25:00 -0700
commit57d407941f5c6958c3ea2a4326b28bf20e319662 (patch)
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parent41db7e59f4e88ad3313681a3b44929c6626f343d (diff)
downloadpi-bitcoindev-57d407941f5c6958c3ea2a4326b28bf20e319662.tar.gz
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[bitcoindev] Re: UTXO probing attack using payjoin
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+Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2025 05:52:07 -0700 (PDT)
+From: jbesraa <jbesraa@gmail.com>
+To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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+References: <450755f1-84c5-4f32-abe0-67087ae884d6n@googlegroups.com>
+Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: UTXO probing attack using payjoin
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+
+While the possibility of UTXO probing via Payjoin is a valid concern=20
+regarding privacy, it's important to note that it might not always come=20
+without cost for the attacker. The Payjoin recipient needs to validate the=
+=20
+initial request, ensuring the sender's inputs are broadcastable. This means=
+=20
+the recipient could, in practice, broadcast the initial transaction even if=
+=20
+the sender aborts the Payjoin. Furthermore, implementing strategies like=20
+maintaining a set of 'seen inputs' can make such probing attempts more=20
+easily detectable and less effective. While these measures don't eliminate=
+=20
+the privacy considerations entirely, they do highlight that recipients have=
+=20
+potential defenses and that probing isn't necessarily a risk-free endeavor=
+=20
+for the attacker.
+
+On Tuesday, March 25, 2025 at 1:48:15=E2=80=AFPM UTC+2 /dev /fd0 wrote:
+
+Hi everyone,=20
+
+Sometimes we are curious and want to know about UTXOs in other wallets.=20
+Payjoin allows you to do this and the recipient would never doubt it=20
+because it's a privacy tool. It's possible to find UTXO in recipient's=20
+wallet without sending any bitcoin. It's called UTXO probing attack and=20
+described in BIP 77-78.
+
+I have shared a demo with all the details in this [post][0]. I have used=20
+bullbitcoin wallet for testing this because it was the only [wallet][1]=20
+which supports payjoin v2 (send, receive) and testnet3.
+
+I think users should be aware of this tradeoff and the information they=20
+share with the sender in payjoin. Payjoin should only be used with trusted=
+=20
+senders.
+
+[0]: https://uncensoredtech.substack.com/p/utxo-probing-attack-using-payjoi=
+n
+[1]: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/PayJoin_adoption
+
+/dev/fd0
+floppy disk guy
+
+--=20
+You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
+Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
+To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
+mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
+To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
+1c7130d4-cbac-4404-968c-9eb7b4e2e4cbn%40googlegroups.com.
+
+------=_Part_29027_568568523.1742907127780
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+While the possibility of UTXO probing via Payjoin is a valid concern=20
+regarding privacy, it's important to note that it might not always come=20
+without cost for the attacker. The Payjoin recipient needs to validate=20
+the initial request, ensuring the sender's inputs are broadcastable.=20
+This means the recipient could, in practice, broadcast the initial=20
+transaction even if the sender aborts the Payjoin. Furthermore,=20
+implementing strategies like maintaining a set of 'seen inputs' can make
+ such probing attempts more easily detectable and less effective. While=20
+these measures don't eliminate the privacy considerations entirely, they
+ do highlight that recipients have potential defenses and that probing=20
+isn't necessarily a risk-free endeavor for the attacker.<br /><br /><div><d=
+iv dir=3D"auto">On Tuesday, March 25, 2025 at 1:48:15=E2=80=AFPM UTC+2 /dev=
+ /fd0 wrote:<br /></div><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bor=
+der-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Hi everyone, <b=
+r /><br />Sometimes we are curious and want to know about UTXOs in other wa=
+llets. Payjoin allows you to do this and the recipient would never doubt it=
+ because it's a privacy tool. It's possible to find UTXO in recipient's wal=
+let without sending any bitcoin. It's called UTXO probing attack and descri=
+bed in BIP 77-78.<br /><br />I have shared a demo with all the details in t=
+his [post][0]. I have used bullbitcoin wallet for testing this because it w=
+as the only [wallet][1] which supports payjoin v2 (send, receive) and testn=
+et3.<br /><br />I think users should be aware of this tradeoff and the info=
+rmation they share with the sender in payjoin. Payjoin should only be used =
+with trusted senders.<br /><br />[0]: <a href=3D"https://uncensoredtech.sub=
+stack.com/p/utxo-probing-attack-using-payjoin" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nof=
+ollow">https://uncensoredtech.substack.com/p/utxo-probing-attack-using-payj=
+oin</a><br />[1]: <a href=3D"https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/PayJoin_adoption" t=
+arget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/PayJoin_adopti=
+on</a><br /><br />/dev/fd0<br />floppy disk guy</blockquote></div>
+
+<p></p>
+
+-- <br />
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+
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generated by cgit v1.2.3 (git 2.39.1) at 2025-07-26 05:21:44 +0000