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| author | Daniel Lidstrom <lidstrom83@gmail.com> | 2013-10-03 09:16:51 -0600 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2013-10-03 15:16:58 +0000 |
| commit | 53cca2486b063b5bae8805698b304b5a72d71d72 (patch) | |
| tree | 8307449b798cc3056723772525ef50994751f0d4 | |
| parent | d9e51117245f073cacd02962a42eabde19b01f50 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-53cca2486b063b5bae8805698b304b5a72d71d72.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-53cca2486b063b5bae8805698b304b5a72d71d72.zip | |
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Identity protocol observation
| -rw-r--r-- | 16/6d31b779d82bc4c5532bba7587e584f91cce3d | 300 |
1 files changed, 300 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/16/6d31b779d82bc4c5532bba7587e584f91cce3d b/16/6d31b779d82bc4c5532bba7587e584f91cce3d new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f06bf524d --- /dev/null +++ b/16/6d31b779d82bc4c5532bba7587e584f91cce3d @@ -0,0 +1,300 @@ +Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] + helo=mx.sourceforge.net) + by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) + (envelope-from <lidstrom83@gmail.com>) id 1VRkeA-0006aI-64 + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Thu, 03 Oct 2013 15:16:58 +0000 +Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com + designates 209.85.223.170 as permitted sender) + client-ip=209.85.223.170; envelope-from=lidstrom83@gmail.com; + helo=mail-ie0-f170.google.com; +Received: from mail-ie0-f170.google.com ([209.85.223.170]) + by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) + (Exim 4.76) id 1VRke9-0003bK-0y + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Thu, 03 Oct 2013 15:16:58 +0000 +Received: by mail-ie0-f170.google.com with SMTP id x13so5990881ief.29 + for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>; + Thu, 03 Oct 2013 08:16:51 -0700 (PDT) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +X-Received: by 10.50.61.137 with SMTP id p9mr2522836igr.45.1380813411527; Thu, + 03 Oct 2013 08:16:51 -0700 (PDT) +Received: by 10.64.135.2 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Oct 2013 08:16:51 -0700 (PDT) +In-Reply-To: <CANEZrP3NekFg-czGGnEiyomCigMcY=beg-+X61_LLg9kqAPy-w@mail.gmail.com> +References: <CADjHg8Hh7Vm+CJpZH1-=0FsAxup7z42i2es-j2AW27OMt_SKTw@mail.gmail.com> + <CADjHg8GDqAFsmO-yNSPpgcvm4uRfwz4z7u-gm8Ur7ScuB=6joA@mail.gmail.com> + <CANEZrP3NekFg-czGGnEiyomCigMcY=beg-+X61_LLg9kqAPy-w@mail.gmail.com> +Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 09:16:51 -0600 +Message-ID: <CADjHg8G8v_oN=CWCVy8agvjP6cAMkACav74SaYRrTGf+c0nVeA@mail.gmail.com> +From: Daniel Lidstrom <lidstrom83@gmail.com> +To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdca5dce56bff04e7d7aca6 +X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) +X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. + See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. + 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. + See + http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block + for more information. [URIs: doubleclick.net] + -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for + sender-domain + 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider + (lidstrom83[at]gmail.com) + -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record + 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in + digit (lidstrom83[at]gmail.com) + 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message + -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from + author's domain + 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, + not necessarily valid + -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature +X-Headers-End: 1VRke9-0003bK-0y +Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Identity protocol observation +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 +Precedence: list +List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 15:16:58 -0000 + +--047d7bdca5dce56bff04e7d7aca6 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 + +Fair enough, though people still manage okay with phone numbers. And a +decentralized naming system seems to come at great cost - with namecoin you +need the whole blockchain to resolve names without trust. Strip out a bell +and whistle - meaningfulness and transferability of names - and you get a +simple, rudimentary (spam killing!) system that scales on any device. I'll +only argue that it seems to be Good Enough *for the types of people who +might care about decentralized names*. Probably a very small set :) + + +On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote: + +> Interesting observation, thanks. +> +> I'd think any competent implementation of such an identity scheme would +> not involve end users directly handling randomized nonsense words, however. +> I always imagined a sacrifice as being a file that you make with a GUI tool +> and load into a browser extension. +> +> +> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Daniel Lidstrom <lidstrom83@gmail.com>wrote: +> +>> A couple more thoughts on this: +>> +>> 1) Both c and k can be kept if c is pronounced 'ch', giving ~10.9 bits +>> per phoneme. +>> 2) An extra phoneme (4 encode 43 bits total) gives room to put extra +>> information into the name, e.g. the first 5 bits could be input as the key +>> to a PRP that permutes the last 38 back to a standard encoding of a tx +>> location. This would give the user 32 random names per sacrifice to choose +>> from, and 38 bits to encode its location in the blockchain, which is enough +>> for pretty large blocks. +>> +>> Sample 4 phoneme names: +>> ~milmoz-vyrnyx +>> ~mypnoz-fojzas +>> ~sawfex-bovlec +>> ~fidhut-guvgis +>> ~bobfej-jessuk +>> ~furcos-diwhuw +>> ~wokryx-wilrox +>> ~bygbyl-caggos +>> ~vewcyv-jyjsal +>> ~daxsaf-cywkul +>> +>> They're not that bad IMHO, especially if you get to pick a decent one +>> from a bunch. +>> +>> +>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Daniel Lidstrom <lidstrom83@gmail.com>wrote: +>> +>>> The location of a tx in the blockchain can be encoded in +>>> n=log2(h)+log2(t) bits, where h is the block height, and t is the number of +>>> transactions in the block. Currently h~250,000 and t~500, so n~27. A CVC +>>> phoneme encodes ~10.7 bits *, so a transaction today can be located in the +>>> blockchain with 3 of these, e.g. reb-mizvig. This is reasonably short, +>>> readable and memorable. +>>> +>>> The identity protocol Jeff Garzik is working on will link a public key +>>> fingerprint to a miner sacrifice transaction. This tx could in turn be +>>> uniquely described with a short name as above. Associating this name with +>>> the public key becomes secure once the tx is sufficiently buried in the +>>> blockchain. In the identity protocol, lightweight clients check the +>>> validity of a sacrifice tx by checking that its merkle path is valid. But +>>> this path encodes, via the ordering of the hashes at each level, the +>>> location of the transaction in the block, so the lightweight client can +>>> verify the sacrifice tx's short name using only the information he already +>>> has. +>>> +>>> Some more random names: +>>> vec-halhic +>>> wom-vizpyd +>>> guv-zussof +>>> jog-copwug +>>> seg-rizges +>>> jyg-somgod +>>> pax-synjem +>>> zyg-zuxdyj +>>> gid-mutdyj +>>> rel-hyrdaj +>>> +>>> Sources of inspiration: +>>> urbit.org +>>> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Identity_protocol_v1 +>>> +>>> * This is somewhat restricted: I disallowed q for obvious reasons and k +>>> because it conflicts with c, and c looks much softer and less like +>>> Klingon. H is allowed for the first consonant, but not the second, and x +>>> is allowed for the last one, but not the first one. Y is a vowel, but not +>>> a consonant. Maybe these weren't quite the right choices. Paint away! +>>> +>> +>> +>> +>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ +>> October Webinars: Code for Performance +>> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. +>> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most +>> from +>> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register > +>> +>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60134791&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk +>> _______________________________________________ +>> Bitcoin-development mailing list +>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development +>> +>> +> + +--047d7bdca5dce56bff04e7d7aca6 +Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Fair enough, though people still manage okay with pho= +ne numbers.=A0 And a decentralized naming system seems to come at great cos= +t - with namecoin you need the whole blockchain to resolve names without tr= +ust.=A0 Strip out a bell and whistle - meaningfulness and transferability o= +f names - and you get a simple, rudimentary (spam killing!) system that sca= +les on any device.=A0 I'll only argue that it seems to be Good Enough <= +i>for the types of people who might care about=A0decentralized names</i>.= +=A0 Probably a very small set :)<br> +</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">O= +n Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Mike Hearn <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"= +mailto:mike@plan99.net" target=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a>></span> wr= +ote:<br> +<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= +x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Interesting observation, th= +anks.<div><br></div><div>I'd think any competent implementation of such= + an identity scheme would not involve end users directly handling randomize= +d nonsense words, however. I always imagined a sacrifice as being a file th= +at you make with a GUI tool and load into a browser extension.</div> + +</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><d= +iv class=3D"h5">On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Daniel Lidstrom <span dir= +=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:lidstrom83@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lids= +trom83@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> + +</div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo= +rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5"><div dir= +=3D"ltr"><div>A couple more thoughts on this:<br><br></div><div>1) Both c a= +nd k can be kept if c is pronounced 'ch', giving ~10.9 bits per pho= +neme.<br> + +</div><div>2) An extra phoneme (4 encode 43 bits total) gives room to put e= +xtra information into the name, e.g. the first 5 bits could be input as the= + key to a PRP that permutes the last 38 back to a standard encoding of a tx= + location.=A0 This would give the user 32 random names per sacrifice to cho= +ose from, and 38 bits to encode its location in the blockchain, which is en= +ough for pretty large blocks.<br> + + +<br></div><div>Sample 4 phoneme names:<br>~milmoz-vyrnyx<br>~mypnoz-fojzas<= +br>~sawfex-bovlec<br>~fidhut-guvgis<br>~bobfej-jessuk<br>~furcos-diwhuw<br>= +~wokryx-wilrox<br>~bygbyl-caggos<br>~vewcyv-jyjsal<br>~daxsaf-cywkul<br> + + +<br></div><div>They're not that bad IMHO, especially if you get to pick= + a decent one from a bunch.<br></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_ex= +tra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Dan= +iel Lidstrom <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:lidstrom83@gmail.com" = +target=3D"_blank">lidstrom83@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> + + +<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= +x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">The location of a tx in the= + blockchain can be encoded in n=3Dlog2(h)+log2(t) bits, where h is the bloc= +k height, and t is the number of transactions in the block.=A0 Currently h~= +250,000 and t~500, so n~27.=A0 A CVC phoneme encodes ~10.7 bits *, so a tra= +nsaction today can be located in the blockchain with 3 of these, e.g. reb-m= +izvig.=A0 This is reasonably short, readable and memorable.<br> + + + +<br>The identity protocol Jeff Garzik is working on will link a public key = +fingerprint to a miner sacrifice transaction.=A0 This tx could in turn be u= +niquely described with a short name as above.=A0 Associating this name with= + the public key becomes secure once the tx is sufficiently buried in the bl= +ockchain.=A0 In the identity protocol, lightweight clients check the validi= +ty of a sacrifice tx by checking that its merkle path is valid.=A0 But this= + path encodes, via the ordering of the hashes at each level, the location o= +f the transaction in the block, so the lightweight client can verify the sa= +crifice tx's short name using only the information he already has.<br> + + + +<br>Some more random names:<br>vec-halhic<br>wom-vizpyd<br>guv-zussof<br>jo= +g-copwug<br>seg-rizges<br>jyg-somgod<br>pax-synjem<br>zyg-zuxdyj<br>gid-mut= +dyj<br>rel-hyrdaj<br><br>Sources of inspiration:<br><a href=3D"http://urbit= +.org" target=3D"_blank">urbit.org</a><br> + + + +<a href=3D"https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Identity_protocol_v1" target=3D"_blan= +k">https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Identity_protocol_v1</a><br><br>* This is som= +ewhat restricted: I disallowed q for obvious reasons and k because it confl= +icts with c, and c looks much softer and less like Klingon.=A0 H is allowed= + for the first consonant, but not the second, and x is allowed for the last= + one, but not the first one.=A0 Y is a vowel, but not a consonant.=A0 Maybe= + these weren't quite the right choices.=A0 Paint away!<br> + + + +</div> +</blockquote></div><br></div> +</div></div><br></div></div>-----------------------------------------------= +-------------------------------<br> +October Webinars: Code for Performance<br> +Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.<br> +Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most fr= +om<br> +the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register &g= +t;<br> +<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D60134791&iu= +=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam= +pad/clk?id=3D60134791&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>___________________= +____________________________<br> + + +Bitcoin-development mailing list<br> +<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla= +nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br> +<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development= +" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= +velopment</a><br> +<br></blockquote></div><br></div> +</blockquote></div><br></div> + +--047d7bdca5dce56bff04e7d7aca6-- + + |