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| author | Jorge Timón <jtimon@jtimon.cc> | 2015-12-11 16:38:37 +0100 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2015-12-11 15:38:39 +0000 |
| commit | 3a2b45dae9a55e0a7ccd239990086fd626e0cc09 (patch) | |
| tree | a3ee7fbd30cc1fc76f070663cdd2365728248cef | |
| parent | 1ad4ece7aea7173eca60dbc578a180e42802aafb (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-3a2b45dae9a55e0a7ccd239990086fd626e0cc09.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-3a2b45dae9a55e0a7ccd239990086fd626e0cc09.zip | |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Standard BIP Draft: Turing Pseudo-Completeness
| -rw-r--r-- | 16/285688174a9f1eedaf645c285f1eea3cf119df | 184 |
1 files changed, 184 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/16/285688174a9f1eedaf645c285f1eea3cf119df b/16/285688174a9f1eedaf645c285f1eea3cf119df new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d1ab9b20f --- /dev/null +++ b/16/285688174a9f1eedaf645c285f1eea3cf119df @@ -0,0 +1,184 @@ +Return-Path: <jtimon@jtimon.cc> +Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org + [172.17.192.35]) + by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82FECDE0 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:38:39 +0000 (UTC) +X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 +Received: from mail-vk0-f54.google.com (mail-vk0-f54.google.com + [209.85.213.54]) + by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C596D135 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:38:38 +0000 (UTC) +Received: by vkay187 with SMTP id y187so117792817vka.3 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Fri, 11 Dec 2015 07:38:38 -0800 (PST) +DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; + d=jtimon-cc.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; + h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to + :cc:content-type; + bh=6V0jzD5haFETGfSxM48Gp7XmYyJI7UUe/bcEMp05vA0=; + b=jeIJYeLFKQF4xB1fM13HwZr24RKtLlIQ/doMgvq0XjxQAL+GOguJF3mPFNeWxu/IJS + MfGMgpZo2JBfYlnA4EauBcTRI7roofjSPvQwivCXe0mvrzGzSgsAc9AqGRPUUCdqS2y7 + LHjkc3EZKbYQr4JwTQkDfW57aU+xSx0vqswDMtAeFNfZXwKeVBgOBESdjgpE44SDJcU+ + +y4/KJ23/tDvOgXIlegFCmtDwrqMPl6ZTYMOwABPjVvMf0A96JC2pumQxwHncBtRYbRI + crEufWyB3lXilZTNt+cDx8LswOUQYvG7XumE1YEIN4z63yvLwcJN9EQojhihcdsN1MHR + QUHw== +X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; + d=1e100.net; s=20130820; + h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date + :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; + bh=6V0jzD5haFETGfSxM48Gp7XmYyJI7UUe/bcEMp05vA0=; + b=J6Lyd1+vLveilBBXOabXd+bfZXJR49ew1icAjOiu/oO8RnWwSVL/5QA0xbxAHL5Sr2 + kKnuY8xePH1a9g/iy/9gcy6EGDRrPT1zA+42BRLSD5KerIG/3O/P+KBNcVACNx+YfuWH + szQ/g6RKtzuTwpVBKXTB6Plk7zcyt/ghVnpZnK11H+1cDd8eH3KcQlWhw9O2UNae4k/t + KWSDtedus9jer/WfC1DWAlTVGnHYrIQ3sSTJrRT/02X4IP5oHF4Zrjdxaci0YZTW2Chj + SyAnFjYfbzXtGiYeboz2Z/XTkV1rWRvAekAEsSCmdyjRajormKyUORI6l2zzy0isfKWU + Wg9A== +X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlOQNGKjBYC7FU2N7usZ9zEQUmyFr5YMzAnKlpT/rR12kkaQ4Kkh56Qf3a8Ol/yaAd+fDxRbGPfMzHtYY+8/RoDb/X63Q== +MIME-Version: 1.0 +X-Received: by 10.31.34.196 with SMTP id i187mr14963389vki.2.1449848318051; + Fri, 11 Dec 2015 07:38:38 -0800 (PST) +Received: by 10.31.236.70 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Dec 2015 07:38:37 -0800 (PST) +Received: by 10.31.236.70 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Dec 2015 07:38:37 -0800 (PST) +In-Reply-To: <CABm2gDr5rKNMerPebJ6b3ayJznEAAvu_zM76syooH-3MepSzXg@mail.gmail.com> +References: <CAEj3M+wYicoACcpG5YUU6vF8vg98XCcJWmgBiyrJj-xHHxrhig@mail.gmail.com> + <CABm2gDq3K2uUWx_itZQJH53EFOJKAWOLiy3NdHWGPvUOCm33wA@mail.gmail.com> + <CAEj3M+ze9HU1KWoWT2nugw9hYY97jk_xsL8WUWqThq_wrXSAVg@mail.gmail.com> + <CABm2gDr5rKNMerPebJ6b3ayJznEAAvu_zM76syooH-3MepSzXg@mail.gmail.com> +Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 16:38:37 +0100 +Message-ID: <CABm2gDrD2XfhG1VEb6iAb0AoPu9AwQgRjdbv-=cOUhU0_FTrQQ@mail.gmail.com> +From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= <jtimon@jtimon.cc> +To: Luke Durback <luke.durback@gmail.com> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113daab6f9d97e0526a11d53 +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, + DKIM_VALID,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,URIBL_BLACK autolearn=no + version=3.3.1 +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on + smtp1.linux-foundation.org +Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Standard BIP Draft: Turing Pseudo-Completeness +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:38:39 -0000 + +--001a113daab6f9d97e0526a11d53 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +well "only executed once" (every time someone verifies that transaction)... +On Dec 11, 2015 4:36 PM, "Jorge Tim=C3=B3n" <jtimon@jtimon.cc> wrote: + +> +> On Dec 10, 2015 7:36 AM, "Luke Durback" <luke.durback@gmail.com> wrote: +> > +> > Tomorrow, I'll work on writing a way to do voting on proposals with BTC +> used as voting shares (This will be difficult as I do not know FORTH). +> That seems like a fairly simple, useful example that will require loops a= +nd +> reused functions. I'll add a fee that goes to the creator. +> +> If it's voting for something consensus, you will need something special. +> If it's not consensus (ie external) thw voting doesn't have to hit the +> chain at all. +> I don't see how "loops and reused functions" are needed in the scripting +> language for this use case, but I'm probably missing some details. Please= +, +> the more concrete you make your example, the easiest it will be for me to +> understand. +> +> > IMO, if you write a complicated system of scripts that's used +> frequently, it makes sense to charge a fee for its usage. +> +> But each scriptSig is only executed once with its corresponding +> scriptPubKey. Are you proposing we change that? +> +> > A decentralized exchange between colored coins, for instance might tak= +e +> a small fee on each trade. +> +> I've been researching the topic of decentralized exchange from before the +> term "colored coins" was first used (now there's multiple designs and +> implementations); contributed to and reviewed many designs: none of them +> (colored coins or not) required turing completeness. +> I'm sorry, but what you are saying here is too vague for me to concretely +> be able to refute the low level "needs" you claim your use cases to have. +> +> > On Dec 10, 2015 10:10 AM, "Luke Durback via bitcoin-dev" < +> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: +> > > This, combined with the ability to make new transactions arbitrarily +> would allow a function to pay its creator. +> > +> > I don't understand what you mean by "a function" in this context, I +> assume you mean a scriptSig, but then "paying its creator" doesn't make +> much sense to me . +> > +> > Could you provide some high level examples of the use cases you would +> like to support with this? +> + +--001a113daab6f9d97e0526a11d53 +Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<p dir=3D"ltr">well "only executed once" (every time someone veri= +fies that transaction)...</p> +<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Dec 11, 2015 4:36 PM, "Jorge Tim=C3=B3n&= +quot; <jtimon@jtimon.cc> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote c= +lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;= +padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr"><br> +On Dec 10, 2015 7:36 AM, "Luke Durback" <<a href=3D"mailto:luk= +e.durback@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">luke.durback@gmail.com</a>> wrote= +:<br> +><br> +> Tomorrow, I'll work on writing a way to do voting on proposals wit= +h BTC used as voting shares (This will be difficult as I do not know FORTH)= +.=C2=A0 That seems like a fairly simple, useful example that will require l= +oops and reused functions.=C2=A0 I'll add a fee that goes to the creato= +r.</p> +<p dir=3D"ltr">If it's voting for something consensus, you will need so= +mething special. If it's not consensus (ie external) thw voting doesn&#= +39;t have to hit the chain at all.<br> +I don't see how "loops and reused functions" are needed in th= +e scripting language for this use case, but I'm probably missing some d= +etails. Please, the more concrete you make your example, the easiest it wil= +l be for me to understand.</p> +<p dir=3D"ltr">> IMO, if you write a complicated system of scripts that&= +#39;s used frequently, it makes sense to charge a fee for its usage.</p> +<p dir=3D"ltr">But each scriptSig is only executed once with its correspond= +ing scriptPubKey. Are you proposing we change that?</p> +<p dir=3D"ltr">>=C2=A0 A decentralized exchange between colored coins, f= +or instance might take a small fee on each trade.</p> +<p dir=3D"ltr">I've been researching the topic of decentralized exchang= +e from before the term "colored coins" was first used (now there&= +#39;s multiple designs and implementations); contributed to and reviewed ma= +ny designs: none of them (colored coins or not) required turing completenes= +s.<br> +I'm sorry, but what you are saying here is too vague for me to concrete= +ly be able to refute the low level "needs" you claim your use cas= +es to have.<br></p> +<p dir=3D"ltr">> On Dec 10, 2015 10:10 AM, "Luke Durback via bitcoi= +n-dev" <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" ta= +rget=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br> +> > This, combined with the ability to make new transactions arbitrar= +ily would allow a function to pay its creator.<br> +><br> +> I don't understand what you mean by "a function" in this= + context, I assume you mean a scriptSig, but then "paying its creator&= +quot; doesn't make much sense to me .<br> +><br> +> Could you provide some high level examples of the use cases you would = +like to support with this?</p> +</blockquote></div> + +--001a113daab6f9d97e0526a11d53-- + |