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| author | Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> | 2022-02-18 18:50:07 -0500 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2022-02-18 23:50:16 +0000 |
| commit | 33e0b8c0d56934b7f7a4f2f374acad8eeb594599 (patch) | |
| tree | 9dd52cc881ab6fd4eade1dd6e564807a61681806 | |
| parent | 70a6f29c1fcc3cff7e7fe747aeec623977ea7425 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-33e0b8c0d56934b7f7a4f2f374acad8eeb594599.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-33e0b8c0d56934b7f7a4f2f374acad8eeb594599.zip | |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Pre-BIP] Fee Accounts
| -rw-r--r-- | 45/fcea5bbf5937e8b6afff2e224928982f384581 | 170 |
1 files changed, 170 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/45/fcea5bbf5937e8b6afff2e224928982f384581 b/45/fcea5bbf5937e8b6afff2e224928982f384581 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9b7570575 --- /dev/null +++ b/45/fcea5bbf5937e8b6afff2e224928982f384581 @@ -0,0 +1,170 @@ +Return-Path: <user@petertodd.org> +Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137]) + by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CECBC000B; + Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:50:16 +0000 (UTC) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071FB417BC; + Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:50:16 +0000 (UTC) +X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org +X-Spam-Flag: NO +X-Spam-Score: -2.802 +X-Spam-Level: +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 + tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, + DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, + SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] + autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no +Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); 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Fri, + 18 Feb 2022 18:50:11 -0500 (EST) +Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) + id 569165FB0B; Fri, 18 Feb 2022 18:50:07 -0500 (EST) +Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 18:50:07 -0500 +From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> +To: Jeremy Rubin <jeremy.l.rubin@gmail.com> +Message-ID: <YhAwr7+9mGJAe2/p@petertodd.org> +References: <CAD5xwhik6jVQpP2_ss7d5o+pPLsqDCHuaXG41AMKHVYhZMXF1w@mail.gmail.com> + <YgS3sJvg6kG3WnVJ@petertodd.org> + <CAD5xwhi3Ja8gdU2h_6-1ck4kdU0TiC2Kx5O-61=f9=6JQSMs=A@mail.gmail.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="oImK0PmE9NV8t4co" +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <CAD5xwhi3Ja8gdU2h_6-1ck4kdU0TiC2Kx5O-61=f9=6JQSMs=A@mail.gmail.com> +Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>, + lightning-dev <lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>, + Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Pre-BIP] Fee Accounts +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:50:16 -0000 + + +--oImK0PmE9NV8t4co +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 12:08:59AM -0800, Jeremy Rubin wrote: +> That's not really pinning; painning usually refers to pinning something to +> the bottom of the mempool whereas these mechanisms make it easier to +> guarantee that progress can be made on confirming the transactions you're +> interested in. + +As I said, it's a new kind of pinning attack, distinct from other types of +pinning attack. + +> Often times in these protocols "the call is coming inside the house". It's +> not a third party adding fees we are scared of, it's a direct party to the +> protocol! + +Often times that is true. But other times that is not true! I gave examples= + of +use-cases where being able to arbitrary add fees to transactions is harmful; +the onus is on you to argue why that is acceptable to burden those users wi= +th a +new class of attack. + +> Sponsors or fee accounts would enable you to ensure the protocol you're +> working on makes forward progress. For things like Eltoo the internal +> ratchet makes this work well. +>=20 +> Protocols which depend on in mempool replacements before confirmation +> already must be happy (should they be secure) with any prior state being +> mined. If a third party pays the fee you might even be happier since the +> execution wasn't on your dime. + +"Must be able to deal with" is not the same thing as "Must be happy". While +those use-cases do have to deal with those exceptional cases happening +occasionally, it's harmful if an attacker can harass you by making those +exceptional cases happen frequently. + +--=20 +https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org + +--oImK0PmE9NV8t4co +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- + +iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE0RcYcKRzsEwFZ3N5Lly11TVRLzcFAmIQMKwACgkQLly11TVR +LzcCWQ//f3s0hWjFyV2QqJZo6y6fmZdUq8BN4AT9BVEr9+epjl2XlXL2WheaFupm +UrNXr44hImz9bRmtqWc5LVJyrRVvmOfK+JVwe33vj2BcepwNwycLpCO7tHkIP7nF +N49H6Nw5Rqq9uWb45+Z3bWD2ICHehOgo45qu7mzaovXMYpnQhc8djKPH+Wsvl2cR +Pc3oePu/9WKrQxdpg26dT/TOH4PXjMn9mE4Dun8u3lQ9ATAVP0QBkvcuTsUnRmau +S5VKjA9vZLSRGC5ZbrTxO4AJ+tig6SBJ5f2ZcIwPYMhEMWdsGoMRc9paFcvUJ9c7 +piZelrpbrdtaRqCtZxnEMRtvLSetr/QsCkLzeAJSqsIhikLHHewiyoqBPqOCxkF/ +9cHarFAaFpnmW4mR0/MdX1U3Q7L0HRzm/vbIeea4u4IXITmWDE5i7qFLe2jiEwL+ +pRIkt1+U/voquomOIMPYBpTuHv9e+wq1y/XhWkjQos8rgu57AhOQaH6jbIgs0jTV +HvC9dSMDoYmdHijMUNzYH6zz93ySBhhHk7IIf7qQ9a5dulKpSo0fw8l/f6QVPm/P +oe9/11J9Qoz939iAMYG3VyiBhkThDUytHRFM0eWjkqARw7+6WeeuJzrsLRFJaw5f +utJGhvYeZOCjMsjd8zCc4niB99vaBCT/wU4fBAmHIgrooLrcvTQ= +=7OZA +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--oImK0PmE9NV8t4co-- + |