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author | Tamas Blummer <tamas.blummer@gmail.com> | 2019-07-06 15:34:31 +0200 |
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committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2019-07-06 13:34:37 +0000 |
commit | 215c411addfaa360f38da632126f72347ab7b063 (patch) | |
tree | fbf1f5cf2efa4e2b4af05745e69f012f782aa72f | |
parent | 87330265898382470e49612d737e9e7c50092c52 (diff) | |
download | pi-bitcoindev-215c411addfaa360f38da632126f72347ab7b063.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-215c411addfaa360f38da632126f72347ab7b063.zip |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable riskless or risky lending, prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve
-rw-r--r-- | fb/9522bb0c9bb73af3ed9bd0e4e1a508d8f6786a | 194 |
1 files changed, 194 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/fb/9522bb0c9bb73af3ed9bd0e4e1a508d8f6786a b/fb/9522bb0c9bb73af3ed9bd0e4e1a508d8f6786a new file mode 100644 index 000000000..855fdef29 --- /dev/null +++ b/fb/9522bb0c9bb73af3ed9bd0e4e1a508d8f6786a @@ -0,0 +1,194 @@ +Return-Path: <tamas.blummer@gmail.com> +Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org + [172.17.192.35]) + by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 912E61C7C + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Sat, 6 Jul 2019 13:34:37 +0000 (UTC) +X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 +Received: from mail-wm1-f52.google.com (mail-wm1-f52.google.com + [209.85.128.52]) + by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAEF64C3 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Sat, 6 Jul 2019 13:34:36 +0000 (UTC) +Received: by mail-wm1-f52.google.com with SMTP id s15so12205174wmj.3 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Sat, 06 Jul 2019 06:34:36 -0700 (PDT) +DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; 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+ Sat, 06 Jul 2019 06:34:35 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from p200300dd6712642689ded8f7683284c1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de + (p200300DD6712642689DED8F7683284C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. + [2003:dd:6712:6426:89de:d8f7:6832:84c1]) + by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id + k124sm5513842wmk.47.2019.07.06.06.34.33 + (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); + Sat, 06 Jul 2019 06:34:34 -0700 (PDT) +From: Tamas Blummer <tamas.blummer@gmail.com> +Message-Id: <8D68DC86-1173-43AC-BC84-FE2834741C13@gmail.com> +Content-Type: multipart/signed; + boundary="Apple-Mail=_5801FADA-519C-4FA2-9B9B-CDA17B86233F"; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 +Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) +Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 15:34:31 +0200 +In-Reply-To: <0851B842-34A1-427F-95DC-A1D6AB416FB9@voskuil.org> +To: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org> +References: <0DBC0DEA-C999-4AEE-B2E1-D5337ECD9405@gmail.com> + <A64C3DCB-10CE-45EA-9A1B-7E3D13DF90EA@gmail.com> + <6B9A04E2-8EEE-40A0-8B39-64AA0F478CAB@voskuil.org> + <SEQmsx6ck79biVthBbBk1b9r9-R45sBwqWrv3FewQIBl4J18sOlwAPRt8sbTIbrBB8DX538GfwQkU40lyODmEkGSwah_VmbXT8iOr2Jcjlw=@protonmail.com> + <F17F2E86-BFA4-456E-85F9-0D6583692AEC@voskuil.org> + <kSCa9KUmpJox2_aglqhel-WdGlXf14mfKNZ95T4xqsrkQJ2Zh5zFA-Llq-j9cXX87iEPP5_aCkO9oR5kfQGKMBK9ds3Jct1V1FAawwa4CyE=@protonmail.com> + <B853EDF2-8A8A-44B0-A66E-F86175E61EDA@voskuil.org> + <4mT6iC4Va7Afg15a5NLbddAnF2a_vAcQSXYr_jg_5IyEK2ezblJff7EJZakoqvp4BJlLitt9Zlq1_l5JadR0nVss7VDPW-pv8jXGh7lkFC4=@protonmail.com> + <A1ADD0BB-F62F-47AF-B043-53BDF3A88CC3@voskuil.org> + <UyUISFwgh_-KtxpCJonltkqTvVbI9-NBukizE8tKSjB2V12otZiCWQ64sn8oqYk5NDftNHxW3koT9EPOWwVrOkXTP8Dqc-0W0wPGRK-wT34=@protonmail.com> + <0851B842-34A1-427F-95DC-A1D6AB416FB9@voskuil.org> +X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, + DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, + RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on + smtp1.linux-foundation.org +X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 06 Jul 2019 16:42:26 +0000 +Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable + riskless or risky lending, + prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2019 13:34:37 -0000 + + +--Apple-Mail=_5801FADA-519C-4FA2-9B9B-CDA17B86233F +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset=utf-8 + +Hi Eric, + +> On Jul 6, 2019, at 03:28, Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org> wrote: +>=20 +>=20 +>=20 +>> On Jul 5, 2019, at 17:17, ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> wrote: +>>=20 +>> Good morning Eric, +>>=20 +>>> But it=E2=80=99s worth noting that early recovery of the UTXO = +entirely eliminates the value of the time lock cost to the ad market. = +The most obvious example is one encumbering the coin to himself, then = +releasing it with his own two signatures whenever he wants. In other = +words, there is no encumbrance at all, just a bunch of pointless = +obscurantion. +>>=20 +>> You still do not understand. +>> I strongly suggest actually reading the post instead of skimming it. +>=20 +> I am responding to the cryptoeconomic principles, not the = +implementation details. Based on your comments here I am not = +misrepresenting those principles. +>=20 +> For example, I have shown that the multisig unlock implementation = +reduces the presumably-encumbered UTXO to simply a UTXO. You have not = +disputed that. In fact below you have accepted it (more below). +>=20 +>> The advertisement is broadcast to new nodes on the ad network if and = +only if its backing UTXO remains unspent. +>> Once the UTXO is spent, then the advertisement is considered no = +longer valid and will be outright deleted by existing nodes, and new = +nodes will not learn of them (and would consider it spam if it is forced = +to them when the UTXO is already spent, possibly banning the node that = +pushes the advertisement at them). +>>=20 +>> Thus the locked-ness of the UTXO is the lifetime of the = +advertisement. +>=20 +> The term =E2=80=9Clocked=E2=80=9D here is misused. A unspent output = +that can be spent at any time is just an unspent output. The fact that = +you can =E2=80=9Cunencumber=E2=80=9D your own coins should make this = +exceedingly obvious: +>=20 +>> Once you disencumber the coins (whether your own, or rented) then = +your advertisement is gone; forever. +>=20 +> As I have shown, there is no *actual* encumbrance. +>=20 + +If you have to forgo using your money while using a service that = +encumbers you. You incur opportunity cost proportional to time you use = +the service and the amount you waived to use elsewhere. +No crypto is needed to understand this. + + +>> Your advertisement exists only as long as the UTXO is unspent. +>=20 +> Exactly, which implies *any* UTXO is sufficient. All that the ad = +network requires is proof of ownership of any UTXO. +>=20 + +Not any, but one with significant value, so a service with limited = +bandwith can prioritize by that. + +> Best, +> Eric +>=20 +>> Regards. +>> ZmnSCPxj + +Best, + +Tamas Blummer + +--Apple-Mail=_5801FADA-519C-4FA2-9B9B-CDA17B86233F +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: attachment; + filename=signature.asc +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; + name=signature.asc +Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- + +iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEE6YNJViYMM6Iv5f9e9nKRxRdxORwFAl0go2cACgkQ9nKRxRdx +ORzflAgAu1Lcm511vRPS4+sypWZnGDfaYCN8arx0VT8avB2Y8yL94Q+eHqDGmn3P +BQ7NuHRX1d9Uzv27TOMwJCigU+T2NMHBOv9D6unA8XCsRFM+cFNw4yHdN/LPr7vl +VZxQjTLKNhknHOR1HGaefQJ04CJaXtnvmcaoI5aTVRhWFN9l1qsdVZwdTagqf9vV +u9wGB2keERKSOvPLmDWuP0cXkZS0SmRGaC725b4pNE10gQ5MMFQcRKTfqlbWcQaQ +Ac/52bmjNuue8bhasEtLcxurEdiQMziWrLLDavD3d/djw+qFAhuq0bSjBPJ7Z6oZ +XEtDl8FqIr5/kGpzzxYK5WB/KeuiSw== +=S02K +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--Apple-Mail=_5801FADA-519C-4FA2-9B9B-CDA17B86233F-- + |