summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
diff options
context:
space:
mode:
authorTamas Blummer <tamas.blummer@gmail.com>2019-07-06 15:34:31 +0200
committerbitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>2019-07-06 13:34:37 +0000
commit215c411addfaa360f38da632126f72347ab7b063 (patch)
treefbf1f5cf2efa4e2b4af05745e69f012f782aa72f
parent87330265898382470e49612d737e9e7c50092c52 (diff)
downloadpi-bitcoindev-215c411addfaa360f38da632126f72347ab7b063.tar.gz
pi-bitcoindev-215c411addfaa360f38da632126f72347ab7b063.zip
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable riskless or risky lending, prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve
-rw-r--r--fb/9522bb0c9bb73af3ed9bd0e4e1a508d8f6786a194
1 files changed, 194 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/fb/9522bb0c9bb73af3ed9bd0e4e1a508d8f6786a b/fb/9522bb0c9bb73af3ed9bd0e4e1a508d8f6786a
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..855fdef29
--- /dev/null
+++ b/fb/9522bb0c9bb73af3ed9bd0e4e1a508d8f6786a
@@ -0,0 +1,194 @@
+Return-Path: <tamas.blummer@gmail.com>
+Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
+ [172.17.192.35])
+ by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 912E61C7C
+ for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
+ Sat, 6 Jul 2019 13:34:37 +0000 (UTC)
+X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
+Received: from mail-wm1-f52.google.com (mail-wm1-f52.google.com
+ [209.85.128.52])
+ by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAEF64C3
+ for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
+ Sat, 6 Jul 2019 13:34:36 +0000 (UTC)
+Received: by mail-wm1-f52.google.com with SMTP id s15so12205174wmj.3
+ for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
+ Sat, 06 Jul 2019 06:34:36 -0700 (PDT)
+DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
+ h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to
+ :references; bh=4QOyrRYTf5gTqi5VGJ1m/s4MyMFpJboiMmfY0+cQn8o=;
+ b=vELD9SW36yueT7sUZMu1YOxPCv6skE1ctYdtFPnCjXz1pdV3k4r2ZBjuQkK2Gq4ZQT
+ j4fpi7qxETSLOiH7hGqrylgXKyhF+azg0EESCSKMcdVkiuN06SodWRN7AB9IHBrtEpk1
+ JoeadI95kc3YkSmPP7wlzyqSxs9VFUFj7ffwHDuPgKq+ovtutXAg4YFFMJtlhPyrdPGh
+ SeG6/vGEwp9pRTKg7weF2oPESTc9RuuUgVJpRc7MqhQ0dt4yqBBRXQGfam+6hW3V8VKT
+ Mhh19XMcskWYpIbEE3ZwsFzEDbnYuxN12kZEnL8scNVQFobZo0lzPmFo5/o5WS1IG7JU
+ Ibqg==
+X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
+ d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
+ h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date
+ :in-reply-to:cc:to:references;
+ bh=4QOyrRYTf5gTqi5VGJ1m/s4MyMFpJboiMmfY0+cQn8o=;
+ b=j2qJdnU34y6AsIij9ixbyzCYkM4S7zqJ+kIRxMuQMb+Bp0QRdmcXuaeR7HKYFg25K9
+ u/NSjzyINU6w+4XWmqkc12z2V6DyEDwfMtnE06hHSZc9VuSAxnNRnjqERxd0erFmaldC
+ bV9jY0DZPwS6giBHmwCVfV84HHvllVetH4XwGVk8eiVDFEduYNAYQ0zQRlerb18tCauV
+ 6/fROk0LL6bsJ6n/uYHv/7V+p9UNZF8MiIjE58drNOygp7VnkZsQ/2eAQWNN13MvU/Ho
+ 5boZquYbVK3FCuLAi4SxcQn5ReYYGk4/1ItqrYvd+e9qzgT/VX20N5QwkUO0TkgfI678
+ SqRQ==
+X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU+bqRofwRjjK+5pLMuzdMeBoWxZT2LCoU5QYcAi9CTfv5n3GkM
+ NnzEa6AydMUej3miidLhZm0=
+X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqws3426rvGAcxNNhS/bjH35Hd2hypEqa13wk3kmK7JWqyJFnYmkh3SHBXot3V0rFgL91iURhg==
+X-Received: by 2002:a1c:4b0b:: with SMTP id y11mr8757849wma.25.1562420075341;
+ Sat, 06 Jul 2019 06:34:35 -0700 (PDT)
+Received: from p200300dd6712642689ded8f7683284c1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de
+ (p200300DD6712642689DED8F7683284C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de.
+ [2003:dd:6712:6426:89de:d8f7:6832:84c1])
+ by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id
+ k124sm5513842wmk.47.2019.07.06.06.34.33
+ (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128);
+ Sat, 06 Jul 2019 06:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
+From: Tamas Blummer <tamas.blummer@gmail.com>
+Message-Id: <8D68DC86-1173-43AC-BC84-FE2834741C13@gmail.com>
+Content-Type: multipart/signed;
+ boundary="Apple-Mail=_5801FADA-519C-4FA2-9B9B-CDA17B86233F";
+ protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512
+Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\))
+Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 15:34:31 +0200
+In-Reply-To: <0851B842-34A1-427F-95DC-A1D6AB416FB9@voskuil.org>
+To: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>
+References: <0DBC0DEA-C999-4AEE-B2E1-D5337ECD9405@gmail.com>
+ <A64C3DCB-10CE-45EA-9A1B-7E3D13DF90EA@gmail.com>
+ <6B9A04E2-8EEE-40A0-8B39-64AA0F478CAB@voskuil.org>
+ <SEQmsx6ck79biVthBbBk1b9r9-R45sBwqWrv3FewQIBl4J18sOlwAPRt8sbTIbrBB8DX538GfwQkU40lyODmEkGSwah_VmbXT8iOr2Jcjlw=@protonmail.com>
+ <F17F2E86-BFA4-456E-85F9-0D6583692AEC@voskuil.org>
+ <kSCa9KUmpJox2_aglqhel-WdGlXf14mfKNZ95T4xqsrkQJ2Zh5zFA-Llq-j9cXX87iEPP5_aCkO9oR5kfQGKMBK9ds3Jct1V1FAawwa4CyE=@protonmail.com>
+ <B853EDF2-8A8A-44B0-A66E-F86175E61EDA@voskuil.org>
+ <4mT6iC4Va7Afg15a5NLbddAnF2a_vAcQSXYr_jg_5IyEK2ezblJff7EJZakoqvp4BJlLitt9Zlq1_l5JadR0nVss7VDPW-pv8jXGh7lkFC4=@protonmail.com>
+ <A1ADD0BB-F62F-47AF-B043-53BDF3A88CC3@voskuil.org>
+ <UyUISFwgh_-KtxpCJonltkqTvVbI9-NBukizE8tKSjB2V12otZiCWQ64sn8oqYk5NDftNHxW3koT9EPOWwVrOkXTP8Dqc-0W0wPGRK-wT34=@protonmail.com>
+ <0851B842-34A1-427F-95DC-A1D6AB416FB9@voskuil.org>
+X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273)
+X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
+ DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM,
+ RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
+X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
+ smtp1.linux-foundation.org
+X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 06 Jul 2019 16:42:26 +0000
+Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
+Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable
+ riskless or risky lending,
+ prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve
+X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
+Precedence: list
+List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
+ <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
+List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
+List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
+List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
+ <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
+X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2019 13:34:37 -0000
+
+
+--Apple-Mail=_5801FADA-519C-4FA2-9B9B-CDA17B86233F
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+ charset=utf-8
+
+Hi Eric,
+
+> On Jul 6, 2019, at 03:28, Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org> wrote:
+>=20
+>=20
+>=20
+>> On Jul 5, 2019, at 17:17, ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> wrote:
+>>=20
+>> Good morning Eric,
+>>=20
+>>> But it=E2=80=99s worth noting that early recovery of the UTXO =
+entirely eliminates the value of the time lock cost to the ad market. =
+The most obvious example is one encumbering the coin to himself, then =
+releasing it with his own two signatures whenever he wants. In other =
+words, there is no encumbrance at all, just a bunch of pointless =
+obscurantion.
+>>=20
+>> You still do not understand.
+>> I strongly suggest actually reading the post instead of skimming it.
+>=20
+> I am responding to the cryptoeconomic principles, not the =
+implementation details. Based on your comments here I am not =
+misrepresenting those principles.
+>=20
+> For example, I have shown that the multisig unlock implementation =
+reduces the presumably-encumbered UTXO to simply a UTXO. You have not =
+disputed that. In fact below you have accepted it (more below).
+>=20
+>> The advertisement is broadcast to new nodes on the ad network if and =
+only if its backing UTXO remains unspent.
+>> Once the UTXO is spent, then the advertisement is considered no =
+longer valid and will be outright deleted by existing nodes, and new =
+nodes will not learn of them (and would consider it spam if it is forced =
+to them when the UTXO is already spent, possibly banning the node that =
+pushes the advertisement at them).
+>>=20
+>> Thus the locked-ness of the UTXO is the lifetime of the =
+advertisement.
+>=20
+> The term =E2=80=9Clocked=E2=80=9D here is misused. A unspent output =
+that can be spent at any time is just an unspent output. The fact that =
+you can =E2=80=9Cunencumber=E2=80=9D your own coins should make this =
+exceedingly obvious:
+>=20
+>> Once you disencumber the coins (whether your own, or rented) then =
+your advertisement is gone; forever.
+>=20
+> As I have shown, there is no *actual* encumbrance.
+>=20
+
+If you have to forgo using your money while using a service that =
+encumbers you. You incur opportunity cost proportional to time you use =
+the service and the amount you waived to use elsewhere.
+No crypto is needed to understand this.
+
+
+>> Your advertisement exists only as long as the UTXO is unspent.
+>=20
+> Exactly, which implies *any* UTXO is sufficient. All that the ad =
+network requires is proof of ownership of any UTXO.
+>=20
+
+Not any, but one with significant value, so a service with limited =
+bandwith can prioritize by that.
+
+> Best,
+> Eric
+>=20
+>> Regards.
+>> ZmnSCPxj
+
+Best,
+
+Tamas Blummer
+
+--Apple-Mail=_5801FADA-519C-4FA2-9B9B-CDA17B86233F
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Disposition: attachment;
+ filename=signature.asc
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature;
+ name=signature.asc
+Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEE6YNJViYMM6Iv5f9e9nKRxRdxORwFAl0go2cACgkQ9nKRxRdx
+ORzflAgAu1Lcm511vRPS4+sypWZnGDfaYCN8arx0VT8avB2Y8yL94Q+eHqDGmn3P
+BQ7NuHRX1d9Uzv27TOMwJCigU+T2NMHBOv9D6unA8XCsRFM+cFNw4yHdN/LPr7vl
+VZxQjTLKNhknHOR1HGaefQJ04CJaXtnvmcaoI5aTVRhWFN9l1qsdVZwdTagqf9vV
+u9wGB2keERKSOvPLmDWuP0cXkZS0SmRGaC725b4pNE10gQ5MMFQcRKTfqlbWcQaQ
+Ac/52bmjNuue8bhasEtLcxurEdiQMziWrLLDavD3d/djw+qFAhuq0bSjBPJ7Z6oZ
+XEtDl8FqIr5/kGpzzxYK5WB/KeuiSw==
+=S02K
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--Apple-Mail=_5801FADA-519C-4FA2-9B9B-CDA17B86233F--
+