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| author | Jim Phillips <jim@ergophobia.org> | 2015-08-03 01:53:13 -0500 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2015-08-03 06:53:17 +0000 |
| commit | 1333382cecab86c56b3ed8bdcd83b36b858bbe2d (patch) | |
| tree | 7f333ad4d9829ea49eed8b893868b4349b8d0d71 | |
| parent | d2d9a46721675107c29462428793a26cc475d803 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-1333382cecab86c56b3ed8bdcd83b36b858bbe2d.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-1333382cecab86c56b3ed8bdcd83b36b858bbe2d.zip | |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] A reason we can all agree on to increase block size
| -rw-r--r-- | 08/0dd0a7e01647e5bce41b00cacb6164bb793f23 | 204 |
1 files changed, 204 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/08/0dd0a7e01647e5bce41b00cacb6164bb793f23 b/08/0dd0a7e01647e5bce41b00cacb6164bb793f23 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ba13d0f47 --- /dev/null +++ b/08/0dd0a7e01647e5bce41b00cacb6164bb793f23 @@ -0,0 +1,204 @@ +Return-Path: <jim@ergophobia.org> +Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org + [172.17.192.35]) + by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EB969A + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Mon, 3 Aug 2015 06:53:17 +0000 (UTC) +X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 +Received: from mail-wi0-f177.google.com (mail-wi0-f177.google.com + [209.85.212.177]) + by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06BB3106 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Mon, 3 Aug 2015 06:53:15 +0000 (UTC) +Received: by wibud3 with SMTP id ud3so122747405wib.1 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Sun, 02 Aug 2015 23:53:14 -0700 (PDT) +X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; + d=1e100.net; s=20130820; + h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date + :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; + bh=ZKM1SSPHd8tL59vBDd0u/ldp5lhlGzADTy/yS2nJkuQ=; + b=T77uWFCaWb7CKVL4Meb7Z2Nuu0U/rvUXCtWSrxvc34mByYfmPSxghPs7oPjgAazrh+ + RTDDZfpgDCo+pZDkZTsIqyK0lprJcw8ZL+X6ILBZAmcGYeD4yqGDXijFJtrq71wcXECS + ZvBHgE+ROcVDQxmkEif5iMkEImLU0ZJZ8QT2hkoNbL94LrBU8y/5Tmi0F6O4aQ7zV542 + SWH2J9H35RZIMybkpbWgGDZS9kCtuRVuk3GykIgt1m/NBL22enhwv/eUqnnycVLha7qu + VIHY/Ec5p1Ht5C4odVry2iDDZSqDfGoLbazWqwBef/E7j69DebJlb51DCVvUIUo7Ci3T + p2hA== +X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnVS45/VDKAI7UPEPKvbtwNj9IMvBxpHhnchF2QFUZO6VDbVTlKLJdfroejX7BLG2XL/kqU +MIME-Version: 1.0 +X-Received: by 10.194.78.19 with SMTP id x19mr5581078wjw.50.1438584794588; + Sun, 02 Aug 2015 23:53:14 -0700 (PDT) +Received: by 10.194.15.193 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Aug 2015 23:53:13 -0700 (PDT) +Received: by 10.194.15.193 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Aug 2015 23:53:13 -0700 (PDT) +In-Reply-To: <CALqxMTEMajz6oHnGvocxy=xDFMBc1LaX1iWYM=w1PF0rH3syFg@mail.gmail.com> +References: <CANe1mWxsAPzWut_gDqe4R-SkDPBYM392NzeVqbUzjwh+pydsWQ@mail.gmail.com> + <CALqxMTEMajz6oHnGvocxy=xDFMBc1LaX1iWYM=w1PF0rH3syFg@mail.gmail.com> +Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 01:53:13 -0500 +Message-ID: <CANe1mWzm2+qRh43bxdbE-VAbQKRJFiD5ss7wZV6x+FGCGV+FCA@mail.gmail.com> +From: Jim Phillips <jim@ergophobia.org> +To: Adam Back <adam@cypherspace.org> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf0cf60a943c7051c629fce +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, + RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,T_REMOTE_IMAGE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on + smtp1.linux-foundation.org +Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A reason we can all agree on to increase block + size +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 06:53:17 -0000 + +--047d7bf0cf60a943c7051c629fce +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 + +Yes I've had a couple other people point that out to me as well and the +logic is sound. Unfortunately that doesn't help solve the actual issue that +mining is currently consolidated within the jurisdiction of a single +political body that is not exactly Bitcoin friendly. I don't know how to +solve that issue aside from pointing it out and hoping miners outside of +China point to different pools and build more farms in smaller countries. +Venezuela for example has cheap electricity and could be a good place to +mine. Iceland too. +On Aug 3, 2015 1:34 AM, "Adam Back" <adam@cypherspace.org> wrote: + +> If block-sizes are increased in a way detrimental to the Chinese miners, +> it is not the Chinese miners that lose, it is all of the non-Chinese miners +> - this is because the Chinese miners have the slight majority of the +> hashrate. The relatively low external bandwidth connecting China to the +> net is actually the problem of the non-Chinese miners problem. Non Chinese +> miners will experience higher orphan rate once Chinese miners cease to +> build on top of blocks that are too large to sync in a timely fashion into +> China. +> +> Adam +> +> On 2 August 2015 at 23:02, Jim Phillips via bitcoin-dev < +> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: +> +>> China is a communist country. It is no secret that all "capitalist" +>> enterprises are essentially State controlled, or at the very least are +>> subject to nationalization should the State deem it necessary. Most ASIC +>> chips are manufactured in China, so they are cheap and accessible to +>> Chinese miners. Electricity is subsidized and essentially free. Cooling is +>> not an issue since large parts of China are mountainous and naturally cool. +>> In short the Chinese miners have HUGE advantages over all other mining +>> operations. This is probably why, between just the top 4 Chinese miners, +>> the People's Republic of China effectively controls 57% of all the Bitcoin +>> being mined. +>> +>> The ONLY disadvantage the Chinese miners have in competing with the rest +>> of the world is bandwidth. China has poor connectivity with the rest of the +>> world, and Chinese miners have said that an increase in the block size +>> would be detrimental to them. I say, GOOD! Most of the free world has +>> enough bandwidth to be able to handle larger blocks. We need to take +>> advantage of that fact to get mining out of the centralized control of the +>> Chinese. +>> +>> If you're truly worried about larger blocks causing centralization, think +>> about how, by restricting blocksize, you're enabling the Communist Chinese +>> government to maintain centralized control over 57% of the Bitcoin hashing +>> power. +>> +>> -- +>> *James G. Phillips IV* +>> <https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts> +>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe> +>> +>> *"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the company of +>> immortals." -- David Ogilvy* +>> +>> *This message was created with 100% recycled electrons. Please think +>> twice before printing.* +>> +>> _______________________________________________ +>> bitcoin-dev mailing list +>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev +>> +>> +> + +--047d7bf0cf60a943c7051c629fce +Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<p dir=3D"ltr">Yes I've had a couple other people point that out to me = +as well and the logic is sound. Unfortunately that doesn't help solve t= +he actual issue that mining is currently consolidated within the jurisdicti= +on of a single political body that is not exactly Bitcoin friendly. I don&#= +39;t know how to solve that issue aside from pointing it out and hoping min= +ers outside of China point to different pools and build more farms in small= +er countries. Venezuela for example has cheap electricity and could be a go= +od place to mine. Iceland too. </p> +<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Aug 3, 2015 1:34 AM, "Adam Back" &l= +t;<a href=3D"mailto:adam@cypherspace.org">adam@cypherspace.org</a>> wrot= +e:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi= +n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">= +If block-sizes are increased in a way detrimental to the Chinese miners, it= + is not the Chinese miners that lose, it is all of the non-Chinese miners -= + this is because the Chinese miners have the slight majority of the hashrat= +e.=C2=A0 The relatively low external bandwidth connecting China to the net = +is actually the problem of the non-Chinese miners problem.=C2=A0 Non Chines= +e miners will experience higher orphan rate once Chinese miners cease to bu= +ild on top of blocks that are too large to sync in a timely fashion into Ch= +ina.<div><br>Adam</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"g= +mail_quote">On 2 August 2015 at 23:02, Jim Phillips via bitcoin-dev <span d= +ir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" tar= +get=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrote:<= +br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left= +:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>China is a communis= +t country. It is no secret that all "capitalist" enterprises are = +essentially State controlled, or at the very least are subject to nationali= +zation should the State deem it necessary. Most ASIC chips are manufactured= + in China, so they are cheap and accessible to Chinese miners. Electricity = +is subsidized and essentially free. Cooling is not an issue since large par= +ts of China are mountainous and naturally cool. In short the Chinese miners= + have HUGE advantages over all other mining operations. This is probably wh= +y, between just the top 4 Chinese miners, the People's Republic of Chin= +a effectively controls 57% of all the Bitcoin being mined.</div><div><br></= +div><div>The ONLY disadvantage the Chinese miners have in competing with th= +e rest of the world is bandwidth. China has poor connectivity with the rest= + of the world, and Chinese miners have said that an increase in the block s= +ize would be detrimental to them. I say, GOOD! Most of the free world has e= +nough bandwidth to be able to handle larger blocks. We need to take advanta= +ge of that fact to get mining out of the centralized control of the Chinese= +.</div><div><br></div><div>If you're truly worried about larger blocks = +causing centralization, think about how, by restricting blocksize, you'= +re enabling the Communist Chinese government to maintain centralized contro= +l over 57% of the Bitcoin hashing power.</div><div><br></div><div><div><div= +>--<div><b>James G. Phillips IV</b>=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://plus.google.com= +/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts" style=3D"font-size:x-small" target=3D"_bl= +ank"><img src=3D"https://ssl.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png"></a>=C2= +=A0<a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe" target=3D"_blank"><img = +src=3D"http://developer.linkedin.com/sites/default/files/LinkedIn_Logo16px.= +png"></a></div></div><div><font size=3D"1"><i>"Don't bunt. Aim out= + of the ball park. Aim for the company of immortals." -- David Ogilvy<= +br></i></font><div><font size=3D"1"><br></font></div></div><div><font size= +=3D"1"><img src=3D"http://findicons.com/files/icons/1156/fugue/16/leaf.png"= +>=C2=A0<em style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:verdana,g= +eneva,sans-serif;line-height:16px;color:green">This message was created wit= +h 100% recycled electrons. Please think twice before printing.</em></font><= +/div></div></div> +</div> +<br>_______________________________________________<br> +bitcoin-dev mailing list<br> +<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">= +bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br> +<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" = +rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= +man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br> +<br></blockquote></div><br></div> +</blockquote></div> + +--047d7bf0cf60a943c7051c629fce-- + |