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author | Erik Aronesty <erik@q32.com> | 2021-05-18 14:52:51 -0400 |
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committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2021-05-18 18:53:05 +0000 |
commit | 00b99bd2f5fa1bcfa9110d78590ab6ac5e0138be (patch) | |
tree | ae111382bdcb7cc21c67c0a1841b23405b2cc700 | |
parent | 8d6f52a65562df7a862538572914f2278331a84a (diff) | |
download | pi-bitcoindev-00b99bd2f5fa1bcfa9110d78590ab6ac5e0138be.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-00b99bd2f5fa1bcfa9110d78590ab6ac5e0138be.zip |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] Opinion on proof of stake in future
-rw-r--r-- | 7c/e02dd3d7a7d5e944b0d11778cfa641d88d288e | 168 |
1 files changed, 168 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/7c/e02dd3d7a7d5e944b0d11778cfa641d88d288e b/7c/e02dd3d7a7d5e944b0d11778cfa641d88d288e new file mode 100644 index 000000000..323761843 --- /dev/null +++ b/7c/e02dd3d7a7d5e944b0d11778cfa641d88d288e @@ -0,0 +1,168 @@ +Return-Path: <earonesty@gmail.com> +Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::136]) + by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41315C0001 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Tue, 18 May 2021 18:53:05 +0000 (UTC) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2CB60B8B + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Tue, 18 May 2021 18:53:05 +0000 (UTC) +X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org +X-Spam-Flag: NO +X-Spam-Score: 1.3 +X-Spam-Level: * +X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, + DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, + FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, + FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, + RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] + autolearn=no autolearn_force=no +Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); 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+ Tue, 18 May 2021 11:53:03 -0700 (PDT) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +References: <6do5xN2g5LPnFeM55iJ-4C4MyXOu_KeXxy68Xt4dJQMhi3LJ8ZrLICmEUlh8JGfDmsDG12m1JDAh0e0huwK_MlyKpdfn22ru3zsm7lYLfBo=@protonmail.com> + <CAJowKg+QM94g+JcC-E-NGD4J9-nXHWt5kBw14bXTAWaqZz=bYw@mail.gmail.com> + <CALeFGL02d9NVp+yobrtc2g6k2nBjBj0Qb==3Ukkbi8C_zb5qMg@mail.gmail.com> + <CAD5xwhi1G3Jj3FAAWQP3BXTK34ugDQY32hq-cQnt8Ny8JP4eGQ@mail.gmail.com> + <CAJowKgJ1x5YKWS1S-sgdU3Tn+hPT64iiUCwG8qh-JS0xqS7ieA@mail.gmail.com> + <30li5MRxkBhzLxLmzRnHkCdn8n3Feqegi-FLZ5VDyIX2uRJfq4kVtrsLxw6dUtsM1atYV25IfIfDaQp4s2Dn2vc8LvYkhbAsn0v_Fwjerpw=@protonmail.com> + <CAJ4-pEBYJNuNMUCt5J5DbKU4RC9JXcO7gZdKh2Vq6PHCmddaeg@mail.gmail.com> + <hASF-iYeGlsq3EhNWY0EWhk5S8R1Wwn534cWsrwLInd8K7f7bUDCAP4GgTj8_ZNsKtgv8y09GJovcS6KXhYRHODC5N_88fvCAF1Z-r2TUFg=@protonmail.com> + <CAJ4-pECb9QSUDPax8SU+-KGwPgVju=YKax9eb-iRwAmZGcMcPg@mail.gmail.com> +In-Reply-To: <CAJ4-pECb9QSUDPax8SU+-KGwPgVju=YKax9eb-iRwAmZGcMcPg@mail.gmail.com> +From: Erik Aronesty <erik@q32.com> +Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 14:52:51 -0400 +Message-ID: <CAJowKgJ3DOrtO+_XzoEnqQUQdge=zCopg2mvuy5F=RSeaVPJYQ@mail.gmail.com> +To: Zac Greenwood <zachgrw@gmail.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 18 May 2021 20:55:08 +0000 +Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>, + SatoshiSingh <SatoshiSingh@protonmail.com> +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Opinion on proof of stake in future +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 18:53:05 -0000 + +1. i never suggested vdf's to replace pow. + +2. my suggestion was specifically *in the context of* a working +proof-of-burn protocol + +- vdfs used only for timing (not block height) +- blind-burned coins of a specific age used to replace proof of work +- the required "work" per block would simply be a competition to +acquire rewards, and so miners would have to burn coins, well in +advance, and hope that their burned coins got rewarded in some far +future +- the point of burned coins is to mimic, in every meaningful way, the +value gained from proof of work... without some of the security +drawbacks +- the miner risks losing all of his burned coins (like all miners risk +losing their work in each block) +- new burns can't be used +- old burns age out (like ASICs do) +- other requirements on burns might be needed to properly mirror the +properties of PoW and the incentives Bitcoin uses to mine honestly. + +3. i do believe it is *possible* that a "burned coin + vdf system" +might be more secure in the long run, and that if the entire space +agreed that such an endeavor was worthwhile, a test net could be spun +up, and a hard-fork could be initiated. + +4. i would never suggest such a thing unless i believed it was +possible that consensus was possible. so no, this is not an "alt +coin" + +On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 10:02 AM Zac Greenwood <zachgrw@gmail.com> wrote: +> +> Hi ZmnSCPxj, +> +> Please note that I am not suggesting VDFs as a means to save energy, but = +solely as a means to make the time between blocks more constant. +> +> Zac +> +> +> On Tue, 18 May 2021 at 12:42, ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> wrote: +>> +>> Good morning Zac, +>> +>> > VDFs might enable more constant block times, for instance by having a = +two-step PoW: +>> > +>> > 1. Use a VDF that takes say 9 minutes to resolve (VDF being subject to= + difficulty adjustments similar to the as-is). As per the property of VDFs,= + miners are able show proof of work. +>> > +>> > 2. Use current PoW mechanism with lower difficulty so finding a block = +takes 1 minute on average, again subject to as-is difficulty adjustments. +>> > +>> > As a result, variation in block times will be greatly reduced. +>> +>> As I understand it, another weakness of VDFs is that they are not inhere= +ntly progress-free (their sequential nature prevents that; they are inheren= +tly progress-requiring). +>> +>> Thus, a miner which focuses on improving the amount of energy that it ca= +n pump into the VDF circuitry (by overclocking and freezing the circuitry),= + could potentially get into a winner-takes-all situation, possibly leading = +to even *worse* competition and even *more* energy consumption. +>> After all, if you can start mining 0.1s faster than the competition, tha= +t is a 0.1s advantage where *only you* can mine *in the entire world*. +>> +>> Regards, +>> ZmnSCPxj + |