From: jeff nordahl (jnordahl@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Dec 16 1999 - 02:26:26 MST
Dan- I really hate to throw in the towel on a potentially productive
dialectic, but there seems to be a frustrating pattern of circular
regression going on here. Perhaps the argumentation would be more
interesting and beneficial if you could supply your explanation of qualia,
instead of just adamantly claiming that they don't exist, explain why every
single one of us including the rest of the world seems to agree that they
experience some form of qualia. Even if we are fooling ourselves and
experiencing an illusion, there has to be an explanation for why we all seem
to experience qualia. If we all share in this illusion, then qualia (or the
false perception of qualia) seems to be essential the human consciousness,
if not all current consciousness. It may even be the essential element that
sets us apart from AI or is the missing link for strong AI??
This is all very relevent I would believe to understanding behavior and
motivation with reward/punish qualitative states. We don't have to just
ponder what it is like to feel hungry. To get more specific and
microscopic, we can question the purpose of the sensation of an opiate,
endorphine, or adrenalin and other neural chemistry as motivators. (pardon
my lack of psycho-chemical terminology) I'm experiencing the qualia of my
neuro-chemistry right now (I'm engaged and prioritizing writing this message
over my qualia of fatigue due to sleep deprivation), and perhaps that is
what is driving me to write this, and driving me to try to reach some truth.
Wouldn't that motivation be nice to harness and impliment in an AI? We
all seem to have qualia, so sorry they don't fit into your little box of
logic. Just cause they're not convenient to your theory doesn't justify
erasing them.
Now from your current perspective, I am trying to understand the benefit of
denying qualia. What is gained? Please tell us your explanation for what
is going on when you see something that is red. Or explain what is going on
when you smash your hand with a hammer. Feel free to look at something red
while smashing your hand if it will enhance the non-existence of your
qualia. You should limit yourself to three bashes with the hammer so as not
to obliterate your hand just in case you experience no painful (educational)
qualia. Please refrain from your UPPER CASE and lower case definitions
when reporting your results.
There was an earlier inquiry as to what qualia is: qualia is a rather
slippery term that can easily ooze into conceptual words like sensation,
"feels like", perceive as, interpret, (the experience of feeling and
perceiving sensory data) but the simple definition is the qualitative mental
states like pains, itches, and sensations of red.
True, my red may be your green, but we both seem to be experiencing a
sensation (interpretation) of color.
jeff
>
>I must admit, I'm pretty disappointed in the way I keep bumping up against
><qualia are a first principle>. I'm now beginning to see why there was
>such disdain to bringing up the topic to begin with. Oh, well.
>
>This whole experience reminds me of why I decided to major in biomedical
>engineering instead of philosophy, despite the fact that I usually enjoy
>philosophy far more.
>
>-Dan, shouting in the dark
>
> -unless you love someone-
> -nothing else makes any sense-
> e.e. cummings
>
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