From: Joe E. Dees (joedees@bellsouth.net)
Date: Tue Jun 08 1999 - 18:53:54 MDT
Date sent: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:18:36 -0400
From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <mike@lorrey.com>
Organization: http://lorrey.com http://artlocate.com
To: extropians@extropy.com
Subject: Re: GUNS: Fear of Guns Vs. Fear of No Guns
Send reply to: extropians@extropy.com
> "Joe E. Dees" wrote:
>
> > Date sent: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 22:10:32 -0400
> > From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <mike@lorrey.com>
> >
> > > "Joe E. Dees" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Date sent: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 19:24:20 -0400
> > > > From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <mike@lorrey.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > These are accident rates, not crime rates. Get your facts straight. Accidental gunshot
> > > > > related injuries for 1995 for people under 15 or 18 was about 250. Using suicides or
> > > > > criminal on criminal gun violence as justification for controlling law abiding usage
> > > > > is insane, about as insane as using government perpetrated gun crime in europe to
> > > > > justify taking civilian guns away.
> > > > >
> > > > The precise figures for 1995 are as follows:
> > > > a)Justifiable Homicides.....................................616
> > > > b)Murders...................................................13,790
> > > > (total homicides)( a + b) ----------------------------------------------------14,406
> > > > c)Suicides..................................................18,503
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Total........................................................ 32,909
> > > > >
> > >
> > > You did not even mention accidental deaths, which is what we were
> > > talking about. Stop changing the subject.
> > >
> > >
> > You're right; all these more that 30,000 gunshot related deaths in a
> > single year (1995) were INTENTIONAL, and less than 2% of the
> > total is justifiable! Factor in accidental deaths, and the toll rises
> > higher still.
>
> If you can't show any intellectual integrity or honesty, please stop debating. For that matter,
> where are all the manslaughters???? If you don't include those important deaths, what is the
> purpose of your statistics unless they are outright lies? A homicide is not a murder, and a
> justified homicide is not a negligent homicide, which is also missing. Also keep in mind that
> many jurisdictions do not call self defense a justifiable reason to kill someone, there are
> thousands of abused wives in prison for 'murdering' their abusive spouses.
>
Then the death toll reaches hogher still; thanks for reinforcing my
points for me, Mike. The statistics are reported by James R.
Peterson, a progun activist, in the August 1999 issue of Playboy
magazine, page 47.
>
> However, before you so rudely interrupted, we were just talking about accidental deaths, not
> intentional ones. However I am glad you brought it up. How can you claim that even 14,000 deaths
> a year, 90% of which are criminal on criminal, is more important than the fact that private gun
> ownership prevents 2.5 million crimes a year? Or that the criminal on criminal homicides and
> murders are not a public service?
>
Where do you get the 2.5 million/year figure? Anecdotes, NRA
spin doctors, or a creative exercise of your imagination? I see no
source quoted; I'm quoting mine, Mr. Vigilante wannabee. BTW,
since e-posts are not dialogue, but are transmitted all-of-a-piece, it
is impossible to interrupt in the middle of one, but it is (obviously)
possible to fallaciously and asininely assert that another has.
>
> Mike Lorrey
>
>
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Nov 01 2002 - 15:04:04 MST