From: Joe E. Dees (joedees@bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon Jun 07 1999 - 11:02:36 MDT
Date sent: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian D Williams <talon57@well.com>
To: extropians@extropy.org
Subject: [GUNS] Re: a comment
Send reply to: extropians@extropy.com
>
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> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net>
>
> >There is an article in the July issue of Playboy about a squad of
> >Chicago cops masquerading as bikers and gang members and
> >asking to buy guns with which to commit crimes. The firearms
> >dealers were most helpful, and in just two months, the police had
> >purchased 171 weapons for $65,000, all for the explicit purpose of
> >aiding in the commission of criminal acts.
>
> Now your source of scientific evidence is Playboy? Sorry, even as
> a subscriber I can't agree. ;)
>
> The Chicago Police story is full of holes. First to buy a gun in
> Illinois you must present a valid FOID card, and then are subject
> to InstaCheck. You must then wait three days. This was followed in
> all purchases made, but not reported in the press.
>
>From the article DEADLY TRAFFIC; KILL THY NEIGHBOR
August Playboy, p.46
"The clerks split up orders to circumvent government registration
requirements. One clerk backdated receipts, skirting the
mandatory waiting period and allowing the biker couple to take
immediate delivery of six semiautomatics. guns that can be sold
only to license holders were sold to customers without the official
paperwork."
>
> Second, you can't refuse to sell based on how someone is dressed,
> or the color of their skin, this is racist, and officially known as
> profiling, the Supreme Court ruled it is illegal.
>
>From the same article:
"One ostensible gang member asked for a gun that would "protect
my spot" and that wouldn't "hang up in the heat of battle." Another
man posing as a gangbanger picked out twin 9mm pistols then told
the clerk he wanted to settle up with the creep who ratted him out.
Obliging store clerks proferred the best hardware, from gel-
impregnated bullets guaranteed not to "hit a little girl on the next
block" to huge guns and shells that would "go through car doors
and everything." "
>
> >One particularly enterprizing gun shop, nestled in the midst of a
> >suburb with a population of 14,000 souls, sold 6500 weapons which
> >were subsequently confiscated by Chicago police after being used
> >in the commission of crimes.
>
> Did they mention the name of the shop? I thought not....
>
No, but will you take a bet on whether or not it happened?
>
> >One out of every five handguns purchased in the US is used to
> >commit a crime within four years of purchase.
>
> I've searched the NERA site and found no trace of this...
>
it is a statistic quoted in a "pro and con" brace of articles, and is
quoted not only by the antigun side, but also by the progun side,
who said that at least 80 percent of the guns were not used for
local crimes. The 1995 national death statistics, as well as their
breakdown, came from the progun article.
>
> From: "Joe E. Dees" <joedees@bellsouth.net>
>
> >The shops are located in outlying suburban towns, out of Chicago's
> >jurisdiction and strategically based to take maximum advantage of
> >their citywide handgun ban. Unable to touch them any other way,
> >Daley is suing them under the same regulations one would use
> >against upstream river polluters, claiming that their toxic flow
> >of handguns into the municipality is largely responsible for its
> >unfortunate position as the murder capital of the US (536 of the
> >700 people killed in Chicago in 1998 died from bullet wounds).
>
> I don't know where you got 1998 numbers, since the Chicago Police
> Web site doesn't have them yet. But you fail to mention that 33% of
> murders are gang related, 22% are altercations, 14% robbery, and
> 13% narcotics, 66% of the murder victims knew each other.
>
I got them from the same article. It's subtitle IS "Kill Thy Neighbor",
an acknowledgement that that sort of thing tends to happen a lot
there - which makes it no more acceptable.
To quote:
"The city of Chicago banned handguns in 1982, yet the city has
become the murder capital of America. Since 1965, handguns
have killed 17,000 of its citizens. In 1998 alone, 536 of the 700
people killed in Chicago died from bullet wounds." BTW, Rolling
Stone has an excellent article on the subject, too. I might quote
from it later. You demanded documentation, I went and got some.
Ifn ya don't like 'em, tough.
>
> The gun shops are not strategically located for maximum advantage,
> Chicago is ringed with suburbs because of geography. I live in one
> of them.
>
Yeah, but a lot of the the gun shops are located only feet outside
city limits, just like ststeline liquor stores.
>
> So explain how the suburbs, with the gun shops and a much greater
> population don't have a gun problem?
>
The criminals are like the executives; they do their business in the
city.
>
> Why did the Mayor and City council exempt themselves from the
> handgun ban?
>
So some nut couldn't blow them away while shouting "Long live the
NRA!" without getting shot back at?
>
> Why did they in fact pass special legislation that allows them to
> conceal carry?
>
See above.
>
> 15,000 weapons are seized in Chicago each year, yet almost zero
> prosecutions..... Why?
>
I'd like an answer to that one, too.
>
> Why do 97%+ of all gun crimes in Chicago take place in certain
> neighborhoods?
>
That's where the criminals live, or where they go to find their victims.
>
> Brian
> Member, Extropy Institute
> www.extropy.org
> Member, Life Extension Foundation
> www.lef.org
> Member, National Rifle Association
> www.nra.org
> 1.800.672.3888
>
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