From: Joe E. Dees (joedees@bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon Jun 07 1999 - 09:45:01 MDT
Date sent: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:48:52 -0400
From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <mike@lorrey.com>
Organization: http://lorrey.com http://artlocate.com
To: extropians@extropy.com
Subject: Re: Better people
Send reply to: extropians@extropy.com
> dwayne wrote:
>
> > Cynthia wrote:
> > >
> > > > The entire gun debate revolves around present-day examples,
> > > > and I don't think present-day humans are an ideal, so they shouldn't be
> > > > allowed near guns.
> > >
> > > What a paradox. If people were ideal, we wouldn't need guns.
> >
> > Kind of my point. Shouldn't we be working out how to achieve this,
> > rather than promoting access to weaponry?
> > I see offensive/defensive capability as a sidetrack on the path to
> > transhumanism, myself.
>
> Until we have acheived this, everyone should be able to protect themselves as they see fit.
>
I see fit to protect myself by, among other things, striving to keep
guns out of insane, violent and otherwise irresponsible hands.
>
> Governments are not empowered to protect us. Abdicting the responsibility before attaining the
> new ability is shortsighted and illogical.
>
> > > > Well, no shit, sherlock.
> > > > I would FAR RATHER discuss technologies which would develop people's
> > > > self-control and reason such that they are CAPABLE of handling such
> > > > technologies. Humans nowadays are barely evolved past monkey stage, and
> > > > I'm usually not at all convinced that we have gone beyond monkeys.
> > > > Especially en masse.
> > >
> > > Well that is a very politically incorrect topic.
> >
> > I have no real interest in the political actions people ascribe to my
> > ideas, I just think them, and out they come. If people don't like what I
> > say, it's the key between 's' and 'f'
> >
> > > Before we can do very much about the
> > > situation we have to realize that:
> > >
> > > 1. Some people are much better/smarter than other people.
> >
> > Guns make no distinction at all in this regard. Dead is dead.
>
> That is true. Dead is dead, no matter whether you are the criminal or the victim, but there is a
> qualitative difference between which is still alive after a crime is commited and which is not.
>
Yeah; in 96% of the homicides, the dead person is the innocent
victim. All the more reason to remove guns from criminals' hands.
> >
> > > 2. Most of that difference is genetic.
> >
> > True.
> >
> > > 3. Despite the fact that the education industry is one of the biggest industries in the
> > > country, education technology is still in the stone age (it is not very useful).
> >
> > Absolutely. These are the areas we should be discussing, not the
> > ability or otherwise to shoot people.
>
> Untill you have a solution, stop denigrating those of us with our fingers in the dike.
>
Maybe your fingers are in the dike personally, but you're defending
the perpetuation of a societal flood of gun-related homicide at the
trigger-happy hands of people who shouldn't even have guns in
theirs in the first place.
>
> Mike Lorrey
>
>
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